Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[HOBBIT]

aaaaah monster in human form!!!!! oh wait, j/k

[Silme*Christian]

well Im no father confessor but I must say I see Silme in a new light now. But like i told her I think thats a good thing. Shes definitely not the little one dimensional creature I first assumed she was. its always good to see the human side of a person

That is reason one, IR. You said that AFTER I told you all about me. What will all the other people think, those who don't know me? Wouldn't they think I am a monster from hell? Lot's of people here are getting anoyed with me because I am not like everyone else here. Didn't you think that?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
That is reason one, IR. You said that AFTER I told you all about me. What will all the other people think, those who don't know me? Wouldn't they think I am a monster from hell? Lot's of people here are getting anoyed with me because I am not like everyone else here. Didn't you think that?

no i dont think that. you seem like a normal kid to me from what i can tell. you like baseball. you like to do active things like hike and wrestle and stuff like that. and you seem to show hints of quite an active imagination... so you get in a few fights. i dont think it makes you a monster. i think it makes you a lot more appealing then just the "little christian girl". dont you?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
Do you guys really think I am some kind of monster in a human form?

AAAIIIIIII!!!!!!
*draws sword and cautiously backs away* EVERYONE! FORM A CIRCLE WITH YOUR BACKS TOWARDS THE MIDDLE... WE WILL ONLY SURVIVE IF WE STAND AND FIGHT TOGETHER!!!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Shame on the person who holds their friendship with someone, no matter what their religion, an embarrassment to themselves.

yes, I agree.

Oh, RÃ*an, please forgive me. I forgot about the surgery completely. Please rest up a while. I will be here when you recover. This question is not a priority and neither is your response.

Forgiven and forgotten I'm sure you have plenty worries of your own to occupy your mind, I can understand your not remembering this. I'll let you guys know when it gets scheduled. I haven't had surgery since I was 5 or so, I'm a little apprehensive... I was excited to get the surgery done then, because my Mom had bought some new clothes for my Francie doll and she said I could open them after the surgery! (smart Mom!) (ps - the Francie doll was the rather sporty girl - not the Barbie with the big, uh, assets...)

I really want to discuss your question eventually, because I think it's a very good one and an important one. I'm sorry I'm so slow - in addition to some health issues right now, I guess I'm just a Treebeard in a fast-moving world .... to paraphrase, I don't like saying something unless it's worth taking a while to say

Nai seril, ar nauval polda.

Could you please translate this? I wish I had the brains and energy to learn Elvish - I have to content myself with Tengwar.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
then you said that you just feel sorry for them but i dont know if thats much better either.

What I mean by that is I feel sorry for (or have compassion for) anyone that is hurting, for whatever reason. I know pain; I don't like it. And the pro-homosexuality side has said that it's painful for homosexuals to be in their situation, for many reasons. I would add that there are other reasons why it's painful for them - because any sin brings pain. But all I meant is that I have compassion for people that hurt.

all i meant by that was that usually when i poke my head in this thread (or some of the other religious related threads) it seems like theres 7 or 8 non christians attacking you from all sides while you spin and wirl to defend yourself. now i may disagree with many of your arguments but ive always thought of you as a decent person and so i guess i kinda felt sorry for you since no other christians (except for occasionaly Leaf) was helping out. thats the main reasons i rarely added my voice to the arguments against you because i felt it would have been redundent and you didnt need another front to defend.

Well, that was kind of you, IR - I do rather feel like I'm spinning around a bit to try to address everyone's posts. But go ahead and join in if you want to, because I like talking with you It will, however, slow me down even more! It's up to you. But I appreciate your motive of not adding another "front"

and really i see this message board as significantly christian and fairly conservative in tone and thinking. you say you see it the opposite way?

I was just saying that I think in terms of percentages, Christians are in the minority. Don't you thnk so? This is the only message board I've ever been on, tho, and I imagine others are very much less Christian (except of course boards on C. S. Lewis or the like).

now why in the world would anyone feel embarrassed to be named a friend of a christian? are you embarrassed to be named a friend of an agnostic? are you disapointed that not EVERYONE you know isnt christian? would it be better if they all were? those questions are just general curiousty. theres no trap waiting there i promise.

sentence:
1 - because Christians are often characterized (sometimes fairly, most often not, IMO) as being mindless and hateful. I know; I've had these charges leveled against me solely because of my faith without anything to do with what I've said or shown in my life.

2 - No, of course not.

3 - A delicate question .... .... let's just say that because I think a right relationship with God is the best thing that can happen to someone, that I am disappointed, yes, but only in the sense of I wish only the best for everyone. You may disagree with me about the right relationship with God being the best thing, but I don't think you can complain about the reason for the disappointment, which is love.

4 - yes, IMO, for the reasons stated above, and ONLY for those reasons. But many people aren't Christian, obviously - I just try to do my best to love people in the way that Christ would. As far as friends, like I said, I look for kindness, etc. And most of my close friends in the non-Internet world ARE Christians, which is natural, since we have many common interests.

ok how about disliking homosexuality?

Yes, I do, just as I dislike gossip, lying, and other sins - because they are harmful to a person, IMO.

[HOBBIT]

hey, i know a bunch of gay ppl and they are some very cool ppl. it isnt thier choice either.


plus, my temple just got a new rabbi- and he is openly gay.


i could care less.

[Rían]

IR and Ruinel - Instead of quoting from both of your posts, because it will get too messy, I'll just try to clarify what I meant by what I said: 'there is no such thing as a "friendly warm happy healthy" homosexual relationship. And monogamy in homosexual relationships, by all accounts I've read, is rare.'

The first sentence:

It just boils down to a difference of opinion - in MY opinion, homosexual behavior is a sin; in YOURS, it's perfectly fine (and we'll just make it easy and say we're talking about homosexual behavior between consenting adults). For a person (like me) that believes that (1) the Bible is the word of God, and (2) God is all-knowing, all-wise, and the very definition of love, then it follows that ANY sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior, is harmful - at the MINIMUM, only to the individual involved, but more often to others around the individual, too.

Now that's NOT saying that homosexuals are never happy, etc. I think it's pretty safe to say that there are some homosexuals that are happier than some heterosexuals (of course, "happiness" is a hard thing to measure - people hide things well, as is very apparent when, for example, a person unexpectedly commits suicide). Happiness depends upon many things. One thing is how much in line you are with the way that our Creator intended us to live. I would say that a homosexual that in every other way except his/her sex life lives up to God's guidelines is probably happier than a heterosexual who is habitually involved in many other sins.

(and just a little side note - "happiness" is not the result (nor is it a goal) of being a Christian - JOY is.)

So what I object to when I see statements like yours, IRex, is the implied statement behind it, which is that there is nothing wrong with it (which you've also come right out and said, as you believe it to be true), and there is inherently nothing harmful in it. Now because I think homosexual behavior is a sin (one of just many that the human race has come up with), I say that it IS inherently harmful, just as any sin is inherently harmful. If you were to say that a hardened, habitual liar (just to pick another type of sin) who has never been caught can have a happy life, I would disagree with you, too. There might be many happy moments, but because the person is in a sinful lifestyle, there will be harm done to him/her.

I'm sorry if this is unclear - it's rather late. All I meant was that because IMO homosexuality is sinful, then it carries, WITHIN ITSELF and because of its very nature, harm to those involved. Heterosexual, monogamous marriage does NOT carry, WITHIN ITSELF and because of its very nature, harm to those involved. Of course, the partners in either situation may also bring harm into the relationship with selfishness, deceit, hate, etc.

I know you disagree with my position, but do you understand what I'm saying? IOW, do you agree that a lifestyle of lying, for example, would carry, within itself and by its very nature, harm to the person practising it?

[Rían]

whoops, forgot the second sentence -

Well, I stand by my opinion. You guys can dig up some stats if you would like to.

[Silme*Christian]

no i dont think that. you seem like a normal kid to me from what i can tell. you like baseball. you like to do active things like hike and wrestle and stuff like that. and you seem to show hints of quite an active imagination... so you get in a few fights. i dont think it makes you a monster. i think it makes you a lot more appealing then just the "little christian girl". dont you?

You didn't think that? I guess it makes me more appealing. But what about everyone else? They don't know how I was raised. They just think that my cheese fell off my cracker (AKA, they think somethings wrong with me). They were all raised by one big family- one that's made up of 2 parents (instead of one) and their parents are'nt all about survival this and survival that. They don't know me at all. They asume too much. I think you are the only one who really knows me. I have confided in you more than I have anyone else. I don't know why. First I wanted you off my back about the nose jobs I gave some people, and next thing I know, you have my whole life writen on a few PMs.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
You didn't think that? I guess it makes me more appealing. But what about everyone else? They don't know how I was raised. They just think that my cheese fell off my cracker (AKA, they think somethings wrong with me). They were all raised by one big family- one that's made up of 2 parents (instead of one) and their parents are'nt all about survival this and survival that. They don't know me at all. They asume too much. I think you are the only one who really knows me. I have confided in you more than I have anyone else. I don't know why. First I wanted you off my back about the nose jobs I gave some people, and next thing I know, you have my whole life writen on a few PMs.

well like coney said a while back maybe you just really wanted to get some things off your chest and open up to someone who wasnt going to judge you based on predispositions or with any judgmental religious lenses (Rian's gonna yell at me about that one ). Nothing wrong with that. we all need that. and no not everyone was raised in a perfect family. we all have our dark little secrets and dysfunctional situations. every one of us. your cheese may not be all the way on your cracker hun but thats ok. perfectly centered cheese and crackers are boring in my opinion. its the normal people we need to worry about.....

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Well, that was kind of you, IR - I do rather feel like I'm spinning around a bit to try to address everyone's posts. But go ahead and join in if you want to, because I like talking with you It will, however, slow me down even more! It's up to you. But I appreciate your motive of not adding another "front"

well if something strikes my interest or I feel I just have to say something youll hear from me. But if 3 other people are basically saying what I was thinking I usually just keep to myself.

I was just saying that I think in terms of percentages, Christians are in the minority. Don't you thnk so? This is the only message board I've ever been on, tho, and I imagine others are very much less Christian (except of course boards on C. S. Lewis or the like).

oh no I see this message board as drenched with vocal self proclaiming Christians. Which make some sense because Tolkien was of course fairly religious so anything to do with his work will attract a Christian element.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
Do you guys really think I am some kind of monster in a human form?

Why do you say that? Is it something that happened over in RPG? (I saw you refer to that on the happy thread)

They just think that my cheese fell off my cracker (AKA, they think somethings wrong with me). They were all raised by one big family- one that's made up of 2 parents (instead of one) and their parents are'nt all about survival this and survival that. They don't know me at all. They asume too much.

You're complaining that "they" assume too much, but Silme, YOU'RE assuming here. For one thing, I doubt that what you said, "they were all raised by one big family", is true. From what I've heard, many Mooters have divorced parents. I'm sorry that you've had a difficult family life, but I think the best thing to do is to just be honest and kind and do what you think is right, and don't put chains on yourself of "what is everyone thinking about me?"

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
well like coney said a while back maybe you just really wanted to get some things off your chest and open up to someone who wasnt going to judge you based on predispositions or with any judgmental religious lenses (Rian's gonna yell at me about that one ).

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Or with any judgemental lenses of any type.

Nothing wrong with that. we all need that. and no not everyone was raised in a perfect family. we all have our dark little secrets and dysfunctional situations. every one of us.

Yup.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
oh no I see this message board as drenched with vocal self proclaiming Christians.

*wonders why she is wet*
"drenched", huh?
Why do you use the terms "vocal" and "self proclaiming"? What do you mean by that? I find that interesting - it seems to have a negative connotation, and I wonder why. There's a lot of athiests on the Moot, and I find only a few to be obnoxious - you seem to find a lot of the Christians to be obnoxious; is that right?

Which make some sense because Tolkien was of course fairly religious so anything to do with his work will attract a Christian element.

That darn Christian element ....
I see what you mean, but I still think the majority (more than 50%) of Mooters are non-Christian, don't you? Maybe I'm wrong....

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
For a person (like me) that believes that (1) the Bible is the word of God, and (2) God is all-knowing, all-wise, and the very definition of love, then it follows that ANY sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior, is harmful - at the MINIMUM, only to the individual involved, but more often to others around the individual, too.

so what it boils down to is that the bible says homosexuality is a sin so that’s that. I guess Ive never been able to grasp this logic. Stealing being bad makes sense. Murdering being bad makes sense. Even coveting your neighbors wife (or daughter or sheep) can make sense to me sociologically. But just being a homosexual seems incredibly out of place in that line up and I don’t understand why Christians don’t say ok but why are we supposed to think its so evil?

One thing is how much in line you are with the way that our Creator intended us to live. I would say that a homosexual that in every other way except his/her sex life lives up to God's guidelines is probably happier than a heterosexual who is habitually involved in many other sins.

and I would say that those poor Christians who happen to also be homosexuals are constantly plagued by self doubt and self hate for the very fact that their religious foundations are telling them oh its wrong and its sinning. And NOT because of some aspect intrinsic to being gay. That’s just silly. Gay is simply how they are. It would be the equivilant of something in the bible saying all Asians are sinners and do not deserve heaven. Well whats a Chinese Christian to do! They cannot just become a nice white European no matter how bad they may want to yet their religion is telling them if they don’t they are sinning. Now is it any mystery to you how people under this kind of permenant stress are going to have a higher degree of issues then people who are in the norm and fit with the bibles ideals?

Now because I think homosexual behavior is a sin (one of just many that the human race has come up with), I say that it IS inherently harmful, just as any sin is inherently harmful. If you were to say that a hardened, habitual liar (just to pick another type of sin) who has never been caught can have a happy life, I would disagree with you, too. There might be many happy moments, but because the person is in a sinful lifestyle, there will be harm done to him/her.

well see ive just never been able to accept the whole “because I said so� mentality and this is a perfect example of it. Because it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin then we cannot question it. And that means that the homosexual lifestyle must be sinful and that means that it must be harmful since all sin is harmful. Well that’s just “I make the rules so there� logic to me. Doesn’t work for me at all. You could name any arbitrary thing and say it’s a sin and it would work the same way.

I know you disagree with my position, but do you understand what I'm saying? IOW, do you agree that a lifestyle of lying, for example, would carry, within itself and by its very nature, harm to the person practising it?

but I separate lying from being gay. That’s the issue. Just as I separate lying from being Italian or being good at sports or having a photographic memory. Why do we only pick on being gay and not any of those other things?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Why do you use the terms "vocal" and "self proclaiming"? What do you mean by that? I find that interesting - it seems to have a negative connotation, and I wonder why. There's a lot of athiests on the Moot, and I find only a few to be obnoxious - you seem to find a lot of the Christians to be obnoxious; is that right?

I wouldn’t say obnoxious so much as… well… annoying…. Sorry!!! I don’t MEAN for them to be annoying to me but they just are. And no its not ALL Christians or even Christians as a rule (although you might be able to get into a pretty good argument over which types of christianity are the most “vocal� and “self proclaiming�). It’s the ones that come on and the first thing they do is say HI!!! IM SO AND SO!! AND IM A CHRISTIAN!!! ISNT IT COOL BEING A CHRISTIAN!!! HI!! IM A CHRISTIAN!!! WEEE!!! And you just want to say ok please go away. Now I have many Christian friends who would NEVER feel that they need to introduce the fact that they are a Christian in every conversation. In fact they don’t. ever. I guess im used to that sort of mentality and when I get the aggressive self proclaiming Christians its annoying to me. This may also have something to do with the fact that you almost never hear people say HI!!! IM AGNOSTIC!!! I LOVE BEING AGNOSTIC!! I FEEL SOOOO IN TOUCH WITH NOT KNOWING THE WHOLE PICTURE ITS GREAT!! WEEE!!! It only seems to be some of the Christians who feel this need to self proclaim. You never hear HI IM BUDDHIST!! Or HI IM NEARSIGHTED!! Or HI IM DIABETIC or HI IM FROM NEW JERSEY!!! Oh wait… I guess we do hear that one an awful lot

I see what you mean, but I still think the majority (more than 50%) of Mooters are non-Christian, don't you? Maybe I'm wrong....

hmm well we can always take a survey. * laugh *

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
...They were all raised by one big family- one that's made up of 2 parents (instead of one) and their parents are'nt all about survival this and survival that. .....

LOL! Oh, sweety, you need to get a grip. There are many of us out here who were in that situation and some that still are. You're not the only kid who's living with a single parent trying to make ends meet. Sorry if this sounded harsh, but let's be real here.
For RÃ*an:

Nai seril, ar nauval polda.

May you rest, and you will be strong. In other words, get well soon.

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Why do you use the terms "vocal" and "self proclaiming"? What do you mean by that? I find that interesting - it seems to have a negative connotation, and I wonder why.

Actually, some of the Christians here have closed minded views and are unable to discuss their view/side without just saying "your wrong, period", or "I'll pray for you". It's most annoying. I don't need anyone to waste their time praying for me. Though I know some Atheists who take that as an insult, I am unaffected by the statement in the same way. I think of the person who made the statement as sad and misguided.

There's a lot of athiests on the Moot, and I find only a few to be obnoxious - .....

Actually, there are very few of us compared to the number of Christians here. I know there are a few Agnostics as well here. Hmmm... so if there are only a few of us, that ups the odds that one of those obnoxious Atheists is .... me.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
...It’s the ones that come on and the first thing they do is say HI!!! IM SO AND SO!! AND IM A CHRISTIAN!!! ISNT IT COOL BEING A CHRISTIAN!!! HI!! IM A CHRISTIAN!!! WEEE!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
I'm changing my sig, just for you IR. BWAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAHAAA!!!! *tears streaming down face from laughter*

Edit: Ok, I can finish this now. *wipes tear from cheek*

...Just as I separate lying from being Italian or being good at sports or having a photographic memory....

errr... just currious IR, but you are saying that you are Italian and that people believe Italians to be liars? (first I've heard of this if that is what you are saying)

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
HI! I'M ATHEIST!!! I ENJOY THE REALIZATION THAT WE ARE BEHOLDEN ONLY TO HUMANITY AND THE NATURAL WORLD, AND THAT THERE IS NOT A SUPERNATURAL BEING LOOKING AFTER US.

*laugh* Maybe we should all carry labels in our sig as to our spiritual disposition. the christians sure seemed to have monoplized this option up to this point. hmm Ill have to think of a good agnostic one...