Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Wow, great answer, Arien! I like that.

thank you! I try

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Even without bieng religous, homosexuality is unnatural, its like putting two mismatching puzzle pieces together, and it ruins the whole puzzle.

what puzzle? yes its not natural in that you get a sex act that doesnt produce offspring but by this definition probably 99% of the sex that goes on in this country is not natural. sex is sex. it all derives from the same instinct. some people just are attracted to what is considered not the "norm". its not their fault. when religion starts getting all picky and writing rules about what you can and cant do in the bedroom then it makes a hypocrisy of itself.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
homosexuals are bad ......

Do you think I think this, IR? Besides the fact that we're ALL sinners (which I think is a more accurate word than "bad").

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
well at least one of you believes that. but yes we definitely disagree on if the homosexual has done anything wrong. i think its arbitrary and pointless to declare a whole group of people to be evil because the bible says so. i just dont see the rational behind it at all. homosexuals are bad because...... Ive never had a good answer to that.

nobody is born bad...it is our actions that define us...whether we are gay or straight...I have a few gay friends and although I don't aprove of their actions, I don't let that get in the way of our friendship...I also have many straight friends and I don't aprove of their actions sometimes but again, I don't let it get in the way of our friendship....Jesus came to accept and forgive not to condemn people just because they were different....we must act like Jeses is we want to call ourselves Christians

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an

IR, I must say that they are NOT equal. But this is because one is non-existant, IMO - there is no such thing as a "friendly warm happy healthy" homosexual relationship. And monogamy in homosexual relationships, by all accounts I've read, is rare. Now I'm not saying that a homosexual will never be friendly, warm, happy, healthy, etc. - but that the lifestyle in itself is wrong, and therefore will in and of itself be destructive to those involved.

RÃ*an thats just a sad statement for me to hear you making. And mildy prejudice i might add. all gays are unhappy unhealthy confused miscreants. and all gays are promiscuous whores. yikes! well im happy to say i know many gays who arent either. i know some gays who criticize me for my sexual liberalism in fact. there is nothing enherintly wrong about two men or two women living together as a couple. the only thing that is wrong is when we insist on freaking them out by telling them how evil they are for doing so and that they need to stop CHOOSING to be gay and get with the program.

[hectorberlioz]

Arien, my point was that since they are homosexual and fight the urge in them they are not homosexual because they have fought the temptation, so. If they claimed to be homosexual and had not engaged, why call themselves homosexuals? Do you know what i mean?.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
nobody is born bad...it is our actions that define us...whether we are gay or straight...I have a few gay friends and although I don't aprove of their actions, I don't let that get in the way of our friendship...I also have many straight friends and I don't aprove of their actions sometimes but again, I don't let it get in the way of our friendship....Jesus came to accept and forgive not to condemn people just because they were different....we must act like Jeses is we want to call ourselves Christians

absolutely. couldnt agree more. but the question is Is it fair to tell a person that they cant do what they feel is normal for them because my god says its wrong? doesnt work for me. way too arbitrary.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Arien, my point was that since they are homosexual and fight the urge in them they are not homosexual because they have fought the temptation, so. If they claimed to be homosexual and had not engaged, why call themselves homosexuals? Do you know what i mean?.

ok, I think I understand you...you're saying that unless you act on the impulse to have same sex relations you shouldn';t call yourself homosexual?

[hectorberlioz]

Okay, rex. I see what your talking about finally, but you HAVE to be gay or lesbian to live with a friend? that doesnt make sense.

[hectorberlioz]

Thats my point.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
RÃ*an thats just a sad statement for me to hear you making. And mildy prejudice i might add. all gays are unhappy unhealthy confused miscreants. and all gays are promiscuous whores.

Oh for goodness' sake, IR - if you're going to put words in my mouth, then please at least be accurate.

Better yet, let my words stand for themselves - DON'T put words in my mouth. Please re-read my post and then you can ask me to be more specific, or ask me if I think that "all gays are unhappy unhealthy confused miscreants. and all gays are promiscuous whores". Don't put words in my mouth that I never said!!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
absolutely. couldnt agree more. but the question is Is it fair to tell a person that they cant do what they feel is normal for them because my god says its wrong? doesnt work for me. way too arbitrary.

I don't expect people to do what I say just because I believe it to be right....I can't just go around and yell at someone for not believing as I do...I feel sad for them but again, that's my opinion and I beleieve that my beliefs are true...so naturally I would feel some remorse for those who don't beleive what I do. what bugs me is people who call themselves Christians/Catholics and then say that homosexual acts are ok when the church has always said that they weren't ok...that to me says that thoses people are hypocrits...to me, it's all or none...christianity and especially Catholicism isn't a buffet to choose what fits in with what you want to do

[hectorberlioz]

If someone is gay but never engaged in the act, but live with another person of the same sex, why call themselves gay? its idiotic, are they trying to put themselves in a hard situation so they can feel sorry for themselves and comfort each other? seems that way. And if they believe the ACT to be okay why do they not ACT?

[hectorberlioz]

AMEN ARIEN.

[Insidious Rex]

Hey usually its RÃ*an against the heathen world here. Why am I getting triple teamed by the crusaders during my lunch hour.

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
ok, I think I understand you...you're saying that unless you act on the impulse to have same sex relations you shouldn';t call yourself homosexual?

so then if you are male and have strong urges to have sex with a female but you are still a virgin then you are not heterosexual? Logic would dictate…

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Okay, rex. I see what your talking about finally, but you HAVE to be gay or lesbian to live with a friend? that doesnt make sense.

um no? but if you are in a relationship with them and see yourself as a couple then generally you are gay.

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Oh for goodness' sake, IR - if you're going to put words in my mouth, then please at least be accurate.

Better yet, let my words stand for themselves - DON'T put words in my mouth. Please re-read my post and then you can ask me to be more specific, or ask me if I think that "all gays are unhappy unhealthy confused miscreants. and all gays are promiscuous whores". Don't put words in my mouth that I never said!!

I did read your posts and I was shocked quite frankly. Normally we joke around about baby killing and what not but I was really truly surprised with that statement you made there RÃ*an. What I paraphrased was essentially along the same lines of what you said. If you don’t believe that then PLEASE don’t make such massively misguided statements about one group of people. Its sad to see. We can argue about (like we have in the gay thread) if psychological problems exist at a higher rate in homosexuals then in heteros and that’s fine because theres many reasons for that and its legitimate. But when you start saying most gays are this and most gays are never that well yeah Im gonna call you on it.

[Rían]

and re the acting on the homosexual tendencies - I remember discussing this a bit on the other thread. IMO, I think, like I said before, it's just like other sins - you can have a tendency/temptation to steal, you can have a tendency/temptation to lie, etc. - and you can have a tendency/temptation for homosexual relationships. I don't think the tendency is sinful, it's just a reflection of sin nature, which we all have in different areas and different degrees. And as Arien pointed out, a person with NO homosexual tendencies who is unmarried needs to work to be chaste; so a person with homosexual tendencies needs to work to be chaste, too, altho it will be harder because there is no proper outlet for those particular desires. But neither is there a proper outlet for the desire to lie.

I feel a lot of compassion for homosexuals, because it is indeed a very difficult life for many reasons. I certainly don't feel that they, as a group, are particularly "bad", and I agree with Arien, I think it was, that a rapist is "worse" than a homosexual in a monogamous relationship. However, both are sinful, as am I.

And BTW, remember the case where a couple of guys tortured and killed a homosexual a few years back? (I think it was Matthew Shepherd - is that right?) What a huge amount of press that got, and it was certainly a horrible crime. However, at roughly the same time, there was another crime - two homosexual men kidnapped, sexually abused and killed a little boy. And that never made the front pages, nightly news, etc. It was shuttled off to a back page and the story quietly died. I think that was sheer cowardice on the part of the media; wouldn't you agree? I think the crime was even worse than the Shepherd crime, because it was a little kid! But it's unpopular to criticize homosexuals. Pretty sad.

**Edit - I added "sexually abused" in the case of the little boy - I was just double-checking my information first, because it was a few years ago.**

[HOBBIT]

Hey IR I support you - but I see no point in arguing with this brainwashed lot.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
AMEN ARIEN.

lol thank you!

Originally posted by hectorberlioz

If someone is gay but never engaged in the act, but live with another person of the same sex, why call themselves gay? its idiotic, are they trying to put themselves in a hard situation so they can feel sorry for themselves and comfort each other? seems that way. doesnt make sense.

I think that most people only feel the need to call themselves gay because they feel some sort of sexual attraction to someone of the same sex...the same for bisexual people

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
And BTW, remember the case where a couple of guys tortured and killed a homosexual a few years back? (I think it was Matthew Shepherd - is that right?) What a huge amount of press that got, and it was certainly a horrible crime. However, at roughly the same time, there was another crime - two homosexual men kidnapped, tortured and killed a little boy. And that never made the front pages, nightly news, etc. It was shuttled off to a back page and the story quietly died. I think that was sheer cowardice on the part of the media; wouldn't you agree? I think the crime was even worse than the Shepherd crime, because it was a little kid! But it's unpopular to criticize homosexuals. Pretty sad.

its funny how you say "a couple of guys" killed "a homosexual" and yet with the second story you say "two homosexual men" killed a "boy". Why do we need to know who was homosexual? why dont they say a couple of heterosexual guys killed a guy today? why qualify anything? the sheer act of labelling shows us the taboo dynamic there is for homosexuality in our society. murder is murder. we shouldnt have to qualify it. and the same goes for sex. its all sex. shouldnt have to get a detailed description of just kind of act of sex it was to determine if someone is decent or not.

[hectorberlioz]

Okay hobbit man try making yourself feel better and others along with you. Brainwashed? you could be just as brainwashed with your theories as we are with ours( which we're not ).