07-15-2003, 07:31 PM | #1641 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Bust her nose Silme!
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
07-15-2003, 07:36 PM | #1642 | |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
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Insidious Rex------
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
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07-15-2003, 07:46 PM | #1643 | ||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-16-2003, 10:24 AM | #1644 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
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People here might think something fearce of me if they saw what it read.
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
07-17-2003, 05:19 AM | #1645 |
Corruptor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jozi SA
Posts: 1,885
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We all know how to 'open' spoilers and we all know that adding spoilers make things 'look' more.............erm................ juicy..................
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
07-17-2003, 10:35 AM | #1646 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
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I labelled it to Insidious Rex! Ohh well, now I am "the Christain who wants to tell her tales of fights she has been in" or "the Christian who brakes all noses she can reach" or whatever you guys are going to call me now.
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
07-17-2003, 10:40 AM | #1647 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trapped in the headlights..
Posts: 3,372
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07-17-2003, 10:59 AM | #1648 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-17-2003, 05:38 PM | #1649 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
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Yes, it is a tremendous thing. Should I give everyone a little biography of myself?
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
07-17-2003, 07:58 PM | #1650 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-17-2003, 09:04 PM | #1651 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
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Thanks, but that is just a poll
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
07-21-2003, 01:28 AM | #1652 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
(I'm sorry I'm taking so long to get back to you - I've got something going on with enlarged lymph nodes, and I run out of energy very quickly and am not able to do as much as I'd like to...)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-21-2003 at 01:34 AM. |
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07-21-2003, 01:33 AM | #1653 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-21-2003, 03:04 AM | #1654 | |
The Dude
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: at the altar of my ego
Posts: 1,685
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Quote:
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
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07-21-2003, 04:07 AM | #1655 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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When we do a sin, we repent. When nonChristians sin, they don't always repent of what they've done. It's a matter of humbling yourself and seeking forgiveness. We're all guilty, but not everyone is ready to admit it. From those that refuse to acknowledge their wrongness, punishment must ensue. So it is in my family. When somebody does something wrong and is sorry, they are forgiven. If they are not sorry, they force my unwilling Dad to spank them. Christians are not meant to judge. If you have meant judgemental Christians, I am very grieved that you received a bad witness. I am very much aware that such Christians exist. Various people I know have had bad experiences with churches, my uncle, for one. It clearly states in the Bible that it is not our place to judge. However, certain things God has called sin, and when people let themselves fall into sin, it is true that we must often try to help the person out of that. If you were falling into a path of theft and murder, things you know plainly are wrong and lead to a bad place (prison or worse), you know that it would be best for you if we assisted you off of that path. It treads a possibly fine line with judgement. Also, when the sin is within the body of Christ, it is more frequently our responsibility that it be rooted out so that it doesn't spread. This rather frequently has been abused, in churches, but it is a truth for nonChristians as well as Christians. We all know that bad influences can badly affect any gathering. Have we not some right to try to remove what we know to be a sin from amongst us? Yet most sins we turn the other cheek to. Ones done explicitely against us. Most of this judgement you see is simply a response to a refusal to accept mercy. The two are very important aspects of God's character. In the Old Testament, the city of Ninevah turned from its wickedness and repented, thus turning itself over to God's mercy, and he fulfilled what he had longed to do, and spared them. In the New Testament, Jesus wept over the murderous city of Jerusalem, because of the destruction they were calling on themselves. The Old Testament God brought countries to their knees, and the New Testament Jesus spoke a large amount on hell. Justice was a common aspect of God's character, just as mercy is. It is up to each individual which they will accept. |
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07-21-2003, 04:48 PM | #1656 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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I think that Christianity is a real thinking religion, and it's a shame when people don't bother to think things through. You've probably seen a few of my posts and Lief's posts - do you think we're mindlessly obeying a set of rules, or do you see us using our brains and thinking things through? However, both of us (Lief, correct me if I'm wrong about you ) accept the standard that we see in the Bible (as expressed in the New Testament, which is the standard that applies to Christians), and choose to do our best to follow it, because we have used our heads and thought it through and believe the Bible to be the Word of God and the truth. Now the vast majority of Biblical commands, both positive and negative, make a tremendous amount of sense. There are some areas that are not currently popular culturally, such as the statement that sex belongs in a marriage between a man and a woman, but "popularity" doesn't matter, because it makes sense to assume that the Creator that made us in the first place knows how we best operate. IOW, a car manufacturer usually includes an instruction manual with the new car that you buy, and any "don't" rules are for the good of the machine (like please don't inflate the tires over a certain psi, or don't put anything besides a certain type of gasoline in the tank); the Bible, among other things, is an instruction manual for how people run best, written by the Creator of people, and the "don't" rules are for the good of the person. Now some people seem to want to "pick and choose" those items in the Bible which they want to obey; however, this is because, IMO, they don't really believe in the God of the Bible, because this is really just saying that they know better than God, isn't it? And that certainly isn't the Biblical image of God! (doesn't make much sense, either, that a being that could make the universe and everything in it is just a bit dense when it comes to what is best for His creation....) So if you have come to a thoughtful conclusion that the Bible is true, then you need to choose to obey the standard set forth in the New Testament, even if you don't fully understand everything to the minutest detail. However, of course, if you see huge inconsistencies in what the Bible says, or see things that are totally hurtful to people (as opposed to some little hurt that is for a greater good), then you need to re-evaluate Christianity. I've been a Christian for almost 30 years, and have read the Bible many times, and have over 200 books on Biblical topics, and I see nothing but consistency and goodness and love, altho sometimes a "tougher" love than is comfortable! But a "tougher" love is also a strong love that is better than a weak, wimpy "oh, whatever makes the little darlings happy even if it hurts them" love, don't you think? It's like an analogy I've used before - say you have a favorite professor at uni who is very wise and from whom you've learned a tremendous amount, and who has also been a faithful and helpful friend, and his advice has always proved good. One day he asks you to do something that you might not fully understand and may not be terribly fun. It is consistent with reason, IMO, to do it, as long as it doesn't go flat against any of his other teachings in a harmful way. Now the thinking part comes in with your evaluation of "is this inconsistent or harmful, to the best of my understanding?" And if the answer is "no", then even tho it might not fully make sense, because of your relationship with this wise person who has always been faithful and wise and true, you choose to obey. Does that make sense? Now I believe you're an agnostic or athiest, is that right? And it looks like you're a fan of MM. Then your standard probably comes from basically what is currently thought to be right or wrong in that particular sub-culture. (And this implies that there is no absolute truth, BTW. Do you believe that?) We ALL have standards; what differs is where we get them from.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-21-2003 at 05:01 PM. |
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07-21-2003, 05:22 PM | #1657 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Baby-K : I think I'll work off of Lief's post as we continue to discuss judging. I think he makes some thoughtful points; do you?
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My point is that there are several meanings to this term. Check out your dictionary - I have 10 meanings in my little one. I think you are very correct to object to the "writing off" sense of the word, and I believe that is the sense that is meant in the Bible when Christians are told to not judge. Only God can truly see our hearts and motives, and He makes the final call, which will always be the right one because of His wisdom and justice and love. However, in another sense of the word we are RIGHT to judge; indeed, there is NO OTHER WAY to carry out some of God's commandments except to use our judgement - just one example is that according to the Bible, if a Christian sees another Christian in a habitual pattern of sin, he/she is instructed to go to the person privately and lovingly confront them with the issue. How can we carry this out if we can't judge? Do you see the difference? What do you think? And I agree with Lief - "If you have meant judgemental Christians, I am very grieved that you received a bad witness. I am very much aware that such Christians exist." But I would also add that there are plenty of non-Christians that are judgemental. But I think it's also worse if a Christian is judgemental in a bad way, because Christians are supposed to love others, while still rightly calling sin as sin. However, please remember that it's the NON-perfect people that become Christians , and it takes some time to work Christ's character in them.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-21-2003, 05:33 PM | #1658 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
And that final sentence is the ultimate wrong judgement to make, BTW - people ARE worth it, and ARE valuable, altho they have free will and can choose to go whatever path they want to go, right or wrong, good or harmful, and sometimes the loving decision is to LET them go down the path a bit to see that the promises made were false, or there were things that they were NOT told about that were a little ways down the path that were harmful..... You've shared some things that you were involved with in your past - did you use judgement in determining that they were harmful to you, and in deciding to get out of them? Would you say a Christian is judgemental if you asked about, say, drug use and he/she said that they thought it was wrong? Am I asking too many questions?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-21-2003 at 05:36 PM. |
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07-21-2003, 05:54 PM | #1659 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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RÃ*an, I think you may be waiting some time for Baby-K to respond unfortunately. May want to direct those questions generally.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
07-21-2003, 07:05 PM | #1660 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
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RÃ*an, all decisions are based on judgement of some sort.
Actions that benefit you at the expense of other beings is not in the best interest of the society. And therefore, may be judged wrong. Theft and murder do not benefit the society as a whole. |
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