Why terrorists attack America

[azalea]

Originally posted by Lizra


Another line of thought seems to see the all out war approach as faning the flames of the fire....pouring fresh gasoline on an already raging blaze, and playing into the hands of the terrorists. They (Doves) see diplomatic and finacial strategies as the best (and sufficient) weapons. In the Doves eyes, militarty options seem to give credibilty to the terrorists, and invite the global escalation of death and destruction. This group feels that terroism can never be eliminated because of the nature of it (one angry guy, one bomb...too easy) and to try to fight "fire with fire" is reckless suicide.

I would add that this side also favors covert military/ gov't operations to track down the terrorist groups and their financial backers. Basically use trained spies/ undercover agents to infiltrate/obtain inside info, which would aid in the fight. I know they're trying to do this now, too, but the doves think this should be done instead of open war on governments. It's just hard to do (infiltrating the groups), and it's also difficult to find willing people and train them to be effective spies.

On another point: Our main goals now in Afghanistan and Iraq should be the following --accessable healthcare, universal education and women's rights. The economic stuff (and all those contracts) just aren't as crucial to the ultimate goal of eradicating terrorism. A major flaw in the US's thinking is that "if they only had the same wealth and prosperity as us, they wouldn't hate us." It's not about that, for the most part. They have a different way of thinking, and a different view of how the world should be. I have seen people who have been over there and written books or appeared on news shows on tv who emphasize this. There was one British guy who had been in Afghanistan before 9-11 doing a documentary of terrorist cells, and he was very emphatic that "they don't want our microwaves and our cable tv." It's important that the leaders realize this as they set their priorities in the rebuilding.
I think it's a huge conflict of interest that people here are getting lucrative contracts to do jobs over there. What, don't they have any native citizens who could do the work? It's bad enough that outsiders were the impetus of their "revolutions," (which I've said makes it less precious to the average citizen there), but now the rebuilding has to be done by us? They really need to make this THEIR project -- it will mean so much more to them. That's why Habitat for Humanity makes the new owner help build their own house.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the US shouldn't have deposed the Taliban (though I might not have done it that way), and I'm not saying they should have deposed Saddam and left immediately, but it's been a year, and we don't seem much closer to bringing our troops home.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i agree... going into iraq and basically bringing in only alliance partners to do the rebuilding as opposed to hiring iraqis and other locals is just one example of not thinking longterm... and throwing fuel on the fire

Where do you think we aren't bring in iraqis? They are very involved in the rebuilding of their OWN country. They don't have all the knowledge and equipment anymore though - that is why the coalition are leading the effort - but there are many Iraqis working for them. You have your information wrong if you think Iraqis aren't working to rebuild the country.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
in the uk, McDonalds dont serve english food,
and we even have to call chips 'fries' if we want any from McDonalds
not exactly geared towards our country, is it?
they dont serve full english for breakfast, pie and mash for lunch, or toad in the hole for dinner, with jam roly poly and custard for pudding

There are pubs here in Texas that serve Guinness beer. McDonald's is an (I'll use this term rather losely here) American restaurant. They're going to primarily serve what the type of food they are known for: disgusting burgers that taste like cardboard; and greasy fries. Any change to the menu would be to the tastes of the local populace. If you don't like what they serve, do what I do, don't eat there.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
to be honest, most people inour country don't like to cause a fuss, we tend to reserve our opinions a bit

O.o
You could have fooled me.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
An observation on this thread:

Hardly anyone has actually attempted to answer the question, apart from Sween.

Clearly, the answer is a complex mix of factors, but I wonder if it's possible to even ask this question without getting shouted down?

Excuse me, but I did answer the question. The question is a rather lame one. It's short sighted and narrow minded. It's not only rude and calous to Americans but also to the rest of the victims of terrorism in this world.

I guess England deserved those IRA bombings then. At least, according to this thread's author.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Excuse me, but I did answer the question. The question is a rather lame one. It's short sighted and narrow minded. It's not only rude and calous to Americans but also to the rest of the victims of terrorism in this world.

I guess England deserved those IRA bombings then. At least, according to this thread's author.

I agree 100%. Like I said - the person doesn't want a debate - they just want confirmation and acceptance that the terrorists are attacking America and that it is all America's fault. Unless you agree with that premise - then you aren't answering the question. I have answered the question several times.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sween
...Jonathan if you really think that Osama Bin Lardin wants to make the whole world islamic by flying planes into buildings your an idiot....

Excuse me, but isn't this a flame? If I'm going to get a spanking for something like this, shouldn't Sween get a spanking also?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Excuse me, but isn't this a flame? If I'm going to get a spanking for something like this, shouldn't Sween get a spanking also?

Not only that - he's wrong on two counts - Jonathan is far from an idiot and two - that is exactly bin Ladin's plan. It's just a means to an end. First destroy the most powerful country in the western world, then take care of the rest of them.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
...My family is Catholic, and from North Ireland.

We have been suffering murders and bombings in the streets for over 40 years. Terror is nothing new.

I have never assumed or even implied that the s/11 attacks were justified. I hate terror, and I have told you so, in previous posts.

All I ever contended was that there was a reason for the increased attacks on the US. This is all I wish to debate.

And if you cannot argue this point without emotion, and cease to argue points of which you have no knowledge, then I suggest you cease to argue.

Well, I'm sure then that the terrorists have a reason to murder and bomb your streets for the past 40 years. Or so you imply in your first post. You can't argue with that, now can you?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Well, I'm sure then that the terrorists have a reason to murder and bomb your streets for the past 40 years. Or so you imply in your first post. You can't argue with that, now can you?

One problem - it's the Catholic IRA bombing the Protestant Englsh. He's on the side that is fighting against the occupying British. What is really sad is when Catholic school children need protection to go to school even - like they did last year.

Basically according to this thread - if the British left Northern Ireland - everything would be fine. So why doesn't Britain just give Northern Ireland back to Ireland and withdraw all their troops? I know perfectly well about the argument that they are there to protect the innocent protestants from the catholics - then why don't the protestants also leave to England. I really don't see much difference in what is going on in Israel and what is going on in Northern Ireland - both are a religious war against people who think that the land is theirs.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
My sincere apoligies, Mr JersyDevil, I had no idea that this, or indeed any site belonged soley to America...

It's not, you [refrained expletive]. But one doesn't simply go to a board that has members from all over the world and pick one out of the bunch to make rash, ill conceived comments about it.

I personally find you quite offensive, rude, mindless, rash, inconsiderate, and indiscreet.

Here is myself assuming that this is a debate about terrorism, and not all about the US, and her view.

Do you have a memory problem? Please reread your first post. This thread is not about terrorism, it is about terrorists having a reason to attack America.

The entire world does not have to agree with you and your countries point of view.

No, they don't. There are many things that I don't agree with about your country. But I'm not going to post an abusive thread like this one.

While I know that every word I say will soon be divided up into neat little portions in your reply, to be "destroyed" peacemeal; I still contend all that I have contended.

*snicker* yeah, it was fun.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
... What is really sad is when Catholic school children need protection to go to school even - like they did last year.

Ah... well, that's truely sad, but I'm sure there was a really good reason for those kids being terrorized. At least, according to Fenir.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

My goodness, Ruinel. Gee you picked me. Oh yeah, lets kill all the little kiddies on their way to school. And lets kill all the business people working in New York one september day. Oh, and lets kill anyone whom disagree's with America's views. (Sarcasm, before you whinge, and foolishly take what I have just said litterally.)

I argue that the reason that 9/11 happened is because us troops are in Saudi Arabia. Of course it was not a justified response to kill innocent americans. I have never said it was. (Perhaps you should re read some of my posts!)

And take a chill pill, and argue the points. We can't have you spanked for flaming again now, can we?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
My goodness, Ruinel. Gee you picked me. Oh yeah, lets kill all the little kiddies on their way to school. And lets kill all the business people working in New York one september day. Oh, and lets kill anyone whom disagree's with America's views. (Sarcasm, before you whinge, and foolishly take what I have just said litterally.)

Hey, I'm just supporting what you have said.

I argue that the reason that 9/11 happened is because us troops are in Saudi Arabia. Of course it was not a justified response to kill innocent americans. I have never said it was. (Perhaps you should re read some of my posts!)

Are you backing down from your position? Or have you been misinterpreted here?

And take a chill pill, and argue the points. We can't have you spanked for flaming again now, can we?

It's alright. I'm starting to get off on the spanking.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
I argue that the reason that 9/11 happened is because us troops are in Saudi Arabia. Of course it was not a justified response to kill innocent americans. I have never said it was. (Perhaps you should re read some of my posts!)

And why are/were our troops in Saudia Arabia? Do you even know or remember? And is your idea that America should just do what terrorists say?

[Fenir_LacDanan]

no, but perhaps if they (i.e., you) want to stop having planes faling from the skies into urban areas, perhaps you should ask yourself why they are in the first place?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
no, but perhaps if they (i.e., you) want to stop having planes faling from the skies into urban areas, perhaps you should ask yourself why they are in the first place?

The only answer you want is that it's America's fault. They are ony using us as an excuse. They're reason for attacking the western world keeps changing. Maybe you should open your eyes a bit.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

well, I know that if my country was the site of THE BIGGEST TERRORIST ATTACK IN HISTORY, I would take a moment to consider why...

If you did nothing to them, then why are they doing something to you? Sounds logical, dont it?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
well, I know that if my country was the site of THE BIGGEST TERRORIST ATTACK IN HISTORY, I would take a moment to consider why...

You just don't get it. You just want to live in your little fantasy world that it is all America's fault. You might want to actually LISTEN to bin Ladin's statements - the WHOLE thing and not just his rampaging against America. There are plenty of references to his wanted to overthrow the western world, that he wants everyone to be muslim like him. He wants to overthrow all the muslim countries - such as Saudi Arabia - becuase they aren't "good muslims". He wants to bomb France now - because of the headscard ban. You really should open your eyes.

If you did nothing to them, then why are they doing something to you? Sounds logical, dont it?

That is the most stupid argument I ever heard. What did the jews do to hitler? Did millions of Jews deserve to die because someone had to have done something to him? What did millions of people do against Stalin? What about did Europe do again Hitler for him to attack? What did America do to Japan for the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbo? There have been a long history of countries and people attacking others for no reason - or for false reasons. Bin Ladin is full of false reasons.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I really don't see much difference in what is going on in Israel and what is going on in Northern Ireland - both are a religious war against people who think that the land is theirs.

I agree with this: there are some similarities. Now then, how did the IRA give up the armed struggle? Oh, yes, they became engaged in the political process. Which would be why I believe a viable Palestine is the only long-term answer to terrorism in the Middle East.

However, that wouldn't have the effect of delivering control of arab oil to Western companies, so it's pretty far down the Bush "to do" list.

BTW, the troops originally went into NI to protect the Catholics from the Protestants. If the army had pulled out there would have been be Civil War. Why should a Protestant who has lived in Ireland since 1689 have to go and live in England?