Mel Gibson's Jesus movie

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by HOBBIT

There is absolutely no proof of Jesus even existing, let alone who "killed" him.

if I remember correctly the Romans kept records of who they executed...Jesus (Joshua in Hebrew) is mentioned.

[HOBBIT]

that is the first i've ever heard that - why not use that whenever anyone said that jeuss didn't exist?

That I know of , only one account of him outside of the bible.

You know, Jesus was a very common name back then , its not like there was only one jesus during that time

[Coney II]

there was no one called jesus in those days (or joshua either) the letter J was only added to the modern alphabet about 400 yrs ago

In the original text, which is written in Greek, the name of Jesus is Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'). Notice no J! This name is of Hebrew origin, namely Yehowshuwa` (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah). Again no J.

Jesus is the modern translation (via the Greek translation) of Yehowshuwa.......which basically means "Yaweh is Saviour"

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
And I wasn't saying you asked me to accept anything.

The movie might not be anti-semitic, but I wasn't furious about the movie - I was about the comment.

From what I understand - she said that it is right to show the Jews as 'wicked' for murdering Jesus, as it is right to show the German wicked for murdering 6 million people.
I can't really see how you can compare between the two. Even if the Jews tried to kill Jesus - were they 'evil'? I think the precepts in the Bible say that you mustn't say you're God - punishment is death. (like many other punishments). The Jews simply followed the precepts, they weren't wicked even if they killed Jesus (and they didn't).
The Nazis, on the other hand, killed 6 millions people without an explanation nor reason.

I do not blame the Germans until now, and I don't think many Christians blame the Jews until now - but the comparison is outrageous in my opinion.

she want saying that at all.
she was saying that what the germans did was bad, and people dont usually persecute them for their history; and so why should we blame jews alone as the sole persecuters of christ?
you're just looking at the wrong way.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
You cannot really compare the two - you are right.

1 man, no matter how great you think he was does not equate to 6 million plus jews and millions of other groups of people.

I have things of new waves of anti-semitism due to this movie, but I don't see why.

There is absolutely no proof of Jesus even existing, let alone who "killed" him.

Most importantly, if he hadn't been killed, the whole christian religion would not even exist - so if jews were responsible you should thank them not hate them.

n your last comment; yes, jesus being crucified was meant to be, for the salvation of men's souls (as I said before).

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I don't think the movie itself is anti-semitic.
But it leads to more anti-semitism incidents - and so I do think it has some anti-semitism in it, of some sort.
I haven't seen teh movie yet, if I see it at all - so I can't tell you why.

this is what I dont undertand.
why care if it leads people to being anti semitic?
its not your place (or anyone's) to tell people what they watch, just because of your opinions.
this is where the germans and the jew comparison comes in again; people didnt kill germans because of the way they were portrayed in Schindler's List.

and anyway, who cares if people hate you for being jewish and supposedly killing christ? paying attention to it is just going to fuel the fire.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
if I remember correctly the Romans kept records of who they executed...Jesus (Joshua in Hebrew) is mentioned.

Proof please.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I don't think the movie itself is anti-semitic.
But it leads to more anti-semitism incidents - and so I do think it has some anti-semitism in it, of some sort.

Is this something you have noticed, as an effect of the movie? I don't know if you're aware of it, but anti-semitism has increased (not much, but still notably) around here the last few years, for other reasons than this movie.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
this is what I dont undertand.
why care if it leads people to being anti semitic?
its not your place (or anyone's) to tell people what they watch, just because of your opinions.
this is where the germans and the jew comparison comes in again; people didnt kill germans because of the way they were portrayed in Schindler's List.

and anyway, who cares if people hate you for being jewish and supposedly killing christ? paying attention to it is just going to fuel the fire.

Because people who hate people for being Jewish and killing Christ have tendencies to do bad things to Jews ?(Assignment: look up "Holocaust" "pogroms" "ghetto" etc.)

"Just ignore that silly Adolf fellow...paying attention only fuels the fire"

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
she want saying that at all.
she was saying that what the germans did was bad, and people dont usually persecute them for their history; and so why should we blame jews alone as the sole persecuters of christ?
you're just looking at the wrong way.

I see. Well, actually... maybe not in USA, but in here there are people that don't buy German products. Like my mom. But I can understand it, really.

Originally posted by Hectorberlioz
this is what I dont undertand.
why care if it leads people to being anti semitic?
its not your place (or anyone's) to tell people what they watch, just because of your opinions.
this is where the germans and the jew comparison comes in again; people didnt kill germans because of the way they were portrayed in Schindler's List.

and anyway, who cares if people hate you for being jewish and supposedly killing christ? paying attention to it is just going to fuel the fire.

Why do I care? Why do I care if more people hate me, want to kill me, without a reason, just because I was born Jewish? What a silly question.
The comparison, as I said, is stupid:
There are no "anti-germans", that stand for - killing all German, because they are German and killed millions of Jews. While there are Christians that were "anti-semitic", and others that will become so, that believe in killing all Jews partly because they killed Jesus 2000 years ago.

About the last part of your post - I'd suggest you to read GrayMouser's post.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Proof please.

I'm not saying that there was prrof that Jesus was God but simply that the Romans executed a man fitting the descrpition of Jesus from the Bible. I'n not sure where to begin to go to get the physical proof...I just heard it on severeal shows in the History and Discovery channel.

[HOBBIT]

If you can't find any proof for it on the internet then it isn't very compelling evicence, now is it?


Saying that Germans should be portrayed as bad for killing millions upon millions of people is the same thing as jewish people being portrayed as bad for possbly killed jesus (if he even existed and if they were the sole ppl behind his death).

There is actual proof of what the germans did - documented with documents, photos, video. There are holocaust survivors still alive today. Fact is, we are certain of what happened at the germans exterminated about 10 million people.

Yes, they should be portrayed as bad for that. Hating Germans now is silly though - mostly all the officers and people that were responsible are all dead or too old to really matter.

On the other hand, if jesus did exist, he was jewish himself and had many jewish supporters. I don't know all the details of how "the jews killed him," but it certainly was only a small group of people behind it

Besides, as I said it sparked the whole relgion - his dying and all.

Hating all Jews 2000 years later is very silly for events that may or may not have occurred.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Because people who hate people for being Jewish and killing Christ have tendencies to do bad things to Jews ?(Assignment: look up "Holocaust" "pogroms" "ghetto" etc.)

"Just ignore that silly Adolf fellow...paying attention only fuels the fire"

no, you twisted what i was saying.
a lot of people are racist. thats a fact. people deal with it everyday, so why make a big deal of the supposed "anti semitism" in gibson's movie when racism is so common everyday?
and adolf was quite a silly fellow. quite laughable, along with Napolean.
another reason I like Berlioz (as opposed to Wagner-who is Berlioz' rival, and who was the role model for Hitler- , who was very anti semitic), Berlioz was always kind and gentlemanly to people from other cultures.

and Radagast: I think I can imagine how you feel, but really, anti semitism didnt spring from this movie and its makers; it sprung from the reckless souls of idiots. you cant control what they say and think.
anti semitism has been going on for a long time...

[HOBBIT]

Radagast isn't saying that anti-semitism sprung from this movie (that only came out this year). Obviously it didn't.

What radagast is saying is that it is sparking some new waves of anti-semitism, which it partly is.

Even after talking to my friends about the movie I can see this.

One exclaimed that after she walked out of the movie she thought "wow, now I hate the jews for killing jesus"

There is a new wave of "jews killed jesus"

This isn't anything new, but the movie is sparking some old hatreds.

This isn't a majority of the people seeing it, but any new anti-semites is not a good thing.

[brownjenkins]

all kinds of prejudices exist... catholic/jewish... muslim/jewish... catholic/muslim... etc.

movies like this don't make "new" racists... they just bring out the true colors that still exist in our world

i don't think you can quantify one ethnic tragedy over another simply by counting who has been wronged more... and in fact, one could argue that these very kind of tallies add to the fire

every ethnic group has been wronged at some point in history... and they will continue to be until people are able to leave blame where it belongs... in the past

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Radagast isn't saying that anti-semitism sprung from this movie (that only came out this year). Obviously it didn't.

What radagast is saying is that it is sparking some new waves of anti-semitism, which it partly is.

Even after talking to my friends about the movie I can see this.

One exclaimed that after she walked out of the movie she thought "wow, now I hate the jews for killing jesus"

There is a new wave of "jews killed jesus"

This isn't anything new, but the movie is sparking some old hatreds.

This isn't a majority of the people seeing it, but any new anti-semites is not a good thing.

and that woman was obviously an idiot.
but you cant control it, so its better to ignore stupid stuf like that woman's comment.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
all kinds of prejudices exist... catholic/jewish... muslim/jewish... catholic/muslim... etc.

movies like this don't make "new" racists... they just bring out the true colors that still exist in our world

i don't think you can quantify one ethnic tragedy over another simply by counting who has been wronged more... and in fact, one could argue that these very kind of tallies add to the fire

every ethnic group has been wronged at some point in history... and they will continue to be until people are able to leave blame where it belongs... in the past

well put BJenkins

[Khamûl]

I finally saw this movie and... wow. I have not the words. I've seen happier people leaving a funeral. This is the most powerful movie I've ever seen. Intense.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Khamûl
I finally saw this movie and... wow. I have not the words. I've seen happier people leaving a funeral. This is the most powerful movie I've ever seen. Intense.

was the same way for me too

[Rían]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I'm not sure I agree with you; I don't remember Ishmael ever being a part of God's plan, though I could be wrong...

I think he was - showing that we can't bring about God's plan apart from His ways. God said that their son was to come thru Sarah, not thru Sarah's handmaid.