06-15-2003, 12:32 PM | #141 | |
Elf Lord
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The second one, he's gotcha.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-15-2003, 01:17 PM | #142 | |||
Elf Lord
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But as he made clear in the next post, he's supporting American isolationism in WWII. Certainly many Americans, notably Roosevelt, were aware of the danger. Quote:
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(Actually, I recall the last time you seemed to state that Canada "is" owned by Britain. Depends on your use of the term "was/is" - do you mean "was then and is now" or "I'm not sure?") Again, tell me the reason why Canada or anyone else should have gotten into Gulf War II? Saddam certainly wasn't a threat to us.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 06-15-2003 at 01:21 PM. |
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06-15-2003, 02:28 PM | #143 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-15-2003 at 02:31 PM. |
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06-15-2003, 03:52 PM | #144 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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There is also this...
Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-15-2003, 03:56 PM | #145 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-15-2003 at 04:00 PM. |
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06-16-2003, 01:30 PM | #146 | |
Elf Lord
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Yep, until 1982 Canada was NOT a wholly free and independent country- it is now- but that doesn't mean it was owned by Great Britain . It was a "self-governing Dominion"- not that it couldn't make it's own decisions about going to war- the declaration of war in WWII was the subject of fierce debate, with most French-Canadians being strongly opposed, for the same reasons as most Americans were.
And BTW, there is no "British" Commonwealth anymore- it's just "The Commonwealth"; including some states such as Canada and Australia who still have the Queen as their Head of State, and others, such as India, who definitely do not. Okay, this gets almost metaphysical, but the Queen in her position of Canadian Head of State is not the Queen of Britain - she is the Queen of Canada; just as in Australia or New Zealand she is the Queen of those respective countries. Britain does not (as of 1982!) have any control whatsoever over Canada. Quote:
If you say that it was terrible that the world, including America, allowed Hitler to gain his position of power and that with Saddam we should all have learned better, okay. If, OTOH, you say that while Hitler may have been an evil tyrant, since he didn't threaten America, America had no reason to get involved in another European War, that's okay too. What you can't say with any consistency is that America was justified in staying out of WWII because Hitler didn't threaten America, but countries which didn't get involved in second Gulf War were weak-kneed appeasers, just because Saddam wasn't a threat to them.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-16-2003, 02:35 PM | #147 | |
Lady of Letters
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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06-16-2003, 07:33 PM | #148 |
Hoplite Nomad
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I will try this again.
Humans will fight, kill and die for the symbolic. For ideas. If you tell a tiger that he or his country, god, family, etc is stupid or whatever if will not affect such a creature. If you physically harm him then the situation changes. Humans organize crusades and jihads. Will kill if you offend their honor or pride, both of which are relative. Symbolism. My first thought is I guess there is a human need to belong and to matter. Maybe it is partly generated by fear of death.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-16-2003, 10:51 PM | #149 |
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I agree with AE. Humans have a desire to belong to something, a collective. In general, they feel pride in belonging to something. I dont know if it stems from the fear of death or not. perhaps it's more than that. Perhaps it is because 99% of humans are social creatures. Part being a social creature is being a part of a larger group. In such a collective, the role of the individual is to further the cause of the collective. Perhaps that is the answer, rather than fear of death. I don't know. I'm just rambling here.
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06-16-2003, 11:09 PM | #150 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-16-2003, 11:25 PM | #151 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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I wonder how much of that is due to social controls. If the system failed would we be so kind? At least the sense of group is expanding. From the cave man's family to tribe, clan, city, nation, etc... Perhaps it will expand to embrace all humanity. Maybe if aliens appeared then we would all be human.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-16-2003, 11:36 PM | #152 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-16-2003, 11:38 PM | #153 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-16-2003, 11:55 PM | #154 |
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I know what I'm about to say will probably upset many people who have been posting here. But I do not have a problem with people burning the US flag in protest. I feel that the US was based on the concept of individual freedoms. Part of that is the freedom to peacefully protest against the government without the fear of retribution. I do not feel any particular pride in a piece of colored cloth, no matter what it is supposed to represent.
A few months ago, one of my neighbors offered me a sign to put in my bit of yard that had a US flag on it and it said: I support our president and our troops. I said no thank you. She looked a bit insulted. What can I say? I do not support the president. |
06-17-2003, 12:08 AM | #155 | ||
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-17-2003, 12:09 AM | #156 | |
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06-17-2003, 12:12 AM | #157 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-17-2003, 12:48 AM | #158 |
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My brother served in the Gulf War. He was permanently disabled from breathing something over there. So, if you think I would pull a Jane Fonda, you're nuts. Those men and women are sent there because that's their job.
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06-17-2003, 01:12 AM | #159 |
Alasailon
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I can't stand all the debate about whether or not we should "be there". Right now, it is too late to argue. Now no matter if we are opposed to it or not, all we can do is support the troops that are there. Even if people do oppose a war they should realize that now there is nothing they can to do stop it so they should support the people that actually have to be there. Why do you think Vietnam was so bad? Because afterwards all the troops came home to booing civilians who had no appreciation for what they had been through. At the least, everybody should show respect for what the troops have to go through regardless of whether or not they agree with the war.
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"and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill." |
06-18-2003, 01:24 PM | #160 | |
Elf Lord
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You could bring your soldiers back tomorrow and it (probably ) wouldn't have any effect on America's future.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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