10-28-2003, 10:50 PM | #141 | ||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chateau d'lf
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
Quote:
Italics statement: I was born a Catholic, okay? They do pray to saints and mary and seek the pope for absolution. You are not supposed "To have any god before me, nor any graven image" yadda yadda yadda, you get the point. Ahem, you pray to your chosen god, this is known as worship. Praying to saints is the same as praying to the tree in the front yard. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
A boy's will is the wind's will, and the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. |
||||
10-29-2003, 01:09 AM | #142 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
10-29-2003, 01:16 AM | #143 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chateau d'lf
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
I could nit pick everything you said out of here, but I'll let you go on with your delusions. And, you are correct about being a hypocrite. *Goes and whistles*
__________________
A boy's will is the wind's will, and the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. |
|
10-29-2003, 01:45 PM | #144 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
Quote:
I understand that someone can be born a Catholic and still not understand the religion. Did you read what Guillaume le Maréchal said? He's right. I know a lot of Christians that say "I'll pray for you". Are they saying that now they are my idol and that I am worshipping them? Or if a Christian says, "I need help with this problem in my life. Will you pray for me?" Is this Christian now making their friend an idol, because they asked their friend to pray for them? It's the same as praying and asking a saint to help them. You just replace your friend with the saint. Same thing. When you pray to Mary, you say "...pray for our sins...", not ask her to absolve you of your sins, she can't do that. It's a prayer for help. Understand? And the Pope is not an idol, neither is Mother Theresa or anyone else. No one worships the Pope as a god. The pope is just like a preacher or minister, he leads the flock, that's all. You pray with him, not to him. You are seriously in error, and full of misconceptions. You say that you were born Catholic, but how is it that you don't know all of this? Though I am not promoting Catholicism, I used to be one for most of my life. Now I am an Atheist. So, as for "praying to the tree in the front yard", I agree. I don't believe that there is a heaven or angels or god or anything like that. Praying to any deity is also, IMO, like praying to the tree in the front yard. |
||
10-29-2003, 02:30 PM | #145 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
Quote:
Guillaume le Maréchal, you put it very eloquently. I would try and state my position on this, but I'd only be repeating what you said so well
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
10-29-2003, 03:26 PM | #146 | |||||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chateau d'lf
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I also think people are biased in their opinions for I KNOW I am, every religious/political/scientific whatever minded person gets much like a peacock. Quote:
Quote:
quit hounding me, I'm just a dumb teenager But seriously, I enjoy the discussion. I just wonder why I am the only person being questioned for their beliefs and why the known catholics aren't. If I haven't offended most of you...I'll be back.
__________________
A boy's will is the wind's will, and the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. Last edited by Brill : 10-29-2003 at 03:27 PM. |
|||||||
10-29-2003, 03:55 PM | #147 |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Brill, how old were you when you left the Catholic Church? was it a conscious decision or did your parents make you?
|
10-29-2003, 04:23 PM | #148 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||||
10-29-2003, 06:36 PM | #149 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
BTW, I've found that people usually resort to name-calling when they have run out of logical or intellectual answers. If you object to what she says, my advice to you (meant in a kind way ) is to "agree to disagree", or to go ahead and discuss the disagreements; not to drop a disagreement by saying she has "delusions" without any logical basis whatsoever for this claim. You hardly know her at all! - on what basis can you say she, personally, has delusions? None. Quote:
I hope you can stay in this discussion, as you seem to be intelligent, but I also hope you can be more considerate of others.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-29-2003 at 06:40 PM. |
||
10-29-2003, 09:14 PM | #150 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
It's beautiful because of what is NOT in it - Arien was insulted, but did not insult back. The perfect example of Arien knowing the Bible (in this case, Matthew 5:39) and striving to obey it. From a fellow blessed servant of the Savior, "You go, girl!"
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-29-2003 at 09:15 PM. |
|
10-29-2003, 10:32 PM | #151 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
1. I'm not that great at debating b/c liek I said I get angry and can't keep a cool head ! 2. I need to brush up on my history of the Church so that I can adequately defend it 3. I realized that the only way that the Chirstian Church can eventually reunite is for us to live out what Jesus and His apostles taught us...to love and that actions are the quickest way to get some one convinced of a particular religion. I do apologize if in my posts I come off as sounding mean...that's just my temper and no offense to anyone! seriously! |
|
10-29-2003, 10:34 PM | #152 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
10-29-2003, 11:27 PM | #153 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
oh, I see, that makes sense - is that right, Brill?
(and you're welcome, Arien - I figured you had to take time to cool off before you posted, and I just wanted to let you know that I admired you for that ) ps - based on Brill's comments on the venting thread about a halloween costume, I think Brill is a girl... (or perhaps a guy that likes wearing high heels? )
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-29-2003 at 11:29 PM. |
10-30-2003, 12:01 AM | #154 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
lol! thanks! I'll remember to address her as She then! |
|
10-30-2003, 01:30 AM | #155 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
Rian, are you saying that members of any denomination may not be Christian, or those two in particular? Why would a Methodist who is a Christian be in a minority in a professed Christian Church?
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
10-30-2003, 01:39 AM | #156 | ||||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chateau d'lf
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Arien, I feel your pain on why you don't debate much. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
A boy's will is the wind's will, and the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. |
||||||
10-30-2003, 01:41 AM | #157 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Yes, I'm saying that IMO, members of any Christian denomination may not be Christian (or conversely, may BE Christian!) I'm not calling out those 2 groups in particular, I just used the Methodist church as an example of another Christian denomination, mainly because I was raised Methodist.
And my comment about "minority position" was precisely because I was raised Methodist, and saw first-hand how many, many people there were NOT Christian (including myself for many years). How did I know they were not Christian? Because later on, they became Christians, and they knew the difference! (and they also left the Methodist church, where our pastor was as likely to preach out of a psychology book as to preach out of the Bible). That comment was really mainly a sad reflection; it is hopefully not accurate, but really, I imagine it is. And I can't seem to word things well tonight! I hope that made sense. Was Arien right about the "hypocrite" statement? *edit* just saw your response - thanks! Boy, did I misunderstand that one! That's why it's always good to ask!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-30-2003 at 01:45 AM. |
10-30-2003, 01:44 AM | #158 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chateau d'lf
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
But yes,
__________________
A boy's will is the wind's will, and the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. |
|
10-30-2003, 01:48 AM | #159 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Whoops - we're cross-posting, Brill - see my post above yours where I edited my last line
Sorry about the PMS - beentheredonethat - I just wanted to come to the defense of Arien, who I respect a lot, and who is NOT delusional, IMO And I wanted to let her know that a fellow struggler-with-sin saw her victorious struggle, and was proud of her
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-30-2003, 01:58 AM | #160 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
A couple of comments about Catholic issues from a non-Catholic -
AFAIK, the confessional-thing, as well as the pray-to-saints thing, is based on verses like James 5:16: Quote:
Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with prayer to saints, as long as it's along the lines of this: (and I'll invent a saint named Sue, who was known to be an especially patient person): "Dear Sue - I know that you were really good with being patient, and I sure need help here! Could you please pray for me to our God and Father that I would have more patience? Thank you, and I'll look forward to meeting you in heaven!" (the above example is given with respect, and in all sincerity and seriousness - I don't mean to put down the Catholic church at all.) Now what I wouldn't agree with, at least as far as I've thought it through, is this: "Dear Sue - I know that you were really good with being patient, and I sure need help here! Could you please help me to have more patience? Thank you, and I'll look forward to meeting you in heaven!" To my mind, there is a big difference. Also, being an engineer, I appreciate efficiency, and I think it's more efficient to go directly to God yourself!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[TB?] News Thread | trolls' bane | General Messages | 35 | 06-22-2007 03:33 AM |
Buddy's Thread | Ruinel | General Messages | 57 | 02-11-2004 12:10 AM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |
The Anti-theist Thread | afro-elf | General Messages | 1123 | 05-09-2002 03:46 PM |
Let Gandalf smite the Abortion thread! | Gilthalion | General Messages | 7 | 08-27-2000 02:52 PM |