Abortion II - Page 8

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 06:18 PM

Yes, idealy a law against abortions would be perfect i believe. But i am also realistic. Its never going to happen. Right now we need to build societies that teach to wait for love and provide organizations that will help with women that have guilt after their abortion.
My only way of getting through the abortion was having help. I went through a serious depression and STILL have dream of my child. Life iwth out her is hard, and I know its my fault.
It is VERY IMPORTANT---sry i know its caps-----to have set ups like these

Empress_Flynn · 09-25-2008, 06:36 PM

This might be an impertinent question, EAR, but if you're so against abortions why did you have one in the first place? Or are you against them now because you had one?

Just trying to clarify... but feel free not to answer if anything's too personal

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 06:41 PM

I want to share EVERYTHING.
My bf and i were 'close' and he 'love me'. We were together when I was a sophomore (last yr) and I was pregnant in september. when i found out i told him. He left me and I didnt want my parents to know about the child. I got a free abortion (the advertisement said free abortions untill christmas..sick eh?). I lost it after that. Im now a junior and am still healing, but am much better.

Empress_Flynn · 09-25-2008, 06:42 PM

And so now you are against them because of your own personal experience with having one?

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 06:50 PM

yes. my child is dead. i murder her. and my metal anguish after was unbearable

katya · 09-25-2008, 06:55 PM

That doesn't mean everyone's going to feel that way though. I don't think that's a good reason to say something is universally wrong....

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 07:00 PM

well....i was around about oh let me see....200 other women all diff ages? they had the same problem. majority of ppl are going to and it someting no one needs to feel

katya · 09-25-2008, 07:03 PM

Where were you around these women? Was it at the support group or something like that? Obviously the women who didn't have issues wouldn't have gone to something like that so it's not really a good sample.

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 07:04 PM

lol very true, my mistake. its called Rachels Vinegard.

sisterandcousinandaunt · 09-25-2008, 08:35 PM

As I've said before, everything around this is difficult. But I've known women to drive by the house where their birth child lives. I've known women to hire private detectives to see if that child is all right. I've known adopted kids with unresolved issues about their families, and intact families where the mother just CANNOT make a connection with the child they bore and are raising...even if they can with a sibling.

And so many issues around fertility. That's the other end of it.

I hope everyone gets a chance to work with their pain on these issues. But I don't think banning abortion gets us that, e.a.r. (((((((((HUGS)))))))))

Midge · 09-25-2008, 08:49 PM

I know I said I was out of this, but...

*gives EAR a big squeeze hug*

Okay. Gone again!

Curufin · 09-25-2008, 09:23 PM

The way I see it, EAR - the choice you had, even though it may have been the wrong one for you (after all, everyone is different and will react differently), is a choice that every woman deserves to have.

Turn it around - how would you feel if you got pregnant again and were forced to have an abortion?

Forcing a woman either to have or not to have an abortion is wrong.

brownjenkins · 10-02-2008, 04:18 PM

Do guys deserve a choice?

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 04:23 PM

^In terms of what? Having input on whether or not an abortion takes place?

brownjenkins · 10-02-2008, 04:26 PM

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 04:29 PM

I think the issue with that is... it's not men who have to go through the actual carrying of the child or the birth... ultimately the reasoning behind the legality of abortion is that it's a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her body...

So that same logic can't really apply to a man because it's not a man's right to choose what to do with a woman's body...

That's just from a legal standpoint though...

sisterandcousinandaunt · 10-02-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Yes.

No, they don't.

***Rían*** · 10-15-2008, 01:07 AM

Yes - but no one has ethical problems with spontaneous abortions

***Rían*** · 10-16-2008, 03:26 PM

I think the choice aspect DOES matter. I think that part of the objection against abortion includes the fact that the baby has done nothing wrong - it is an innocent at this point in time, and our society goes with "live and let live" unless the person has CHOSEN to do something so awful that society needs to apply a consequence.

katya · 10-16-2008, 05:48 PM

I think the choice aspect does matter too. It's possible to say killing is ok in some circumstances and not in others. I, however, think abortion might be one of those times when it's ok (if not ok then the lesser of two evils), and capital punishment is not. If you think about that in terms of innocence only then it seems backwards, but not if you think about it in terms of how much harm will come out of it. Death row inmates have a developed sense of self, people who care about them, and I don't think anyone has the right to judge whether someone is evil or deserves to die. (I don't think aborted fetuses "deserve" to die either, but I think children "deserve" the best upbringing possible by parents who love and want them, and that women "deserve" to be able to make choices about their lives.)

09-25-2008, 06:36 PM	#2
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	This might be an impertinent question, EAR, but if you're so against abortions why did you have one in the first place? Or are you against them now because you had one? Just trying to clarify... but feel free not to answer if anything's too personal __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

09-25-2008, 06:42 PM	#4
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	And so now you are against them because of your own personal experience with having one? __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

09-25-2008, 08:35 PM	#10
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	As I've said before, everything around this is difficult. But I've known women to drive by the house where their birth child lives. I've known women to hire private detectives to see if that child is all right. I've known adopted kids with unresolved issues about their families, and intact families where the mother just CANNOT make a connection with the child they bore and are raising...even if they can with a sibling. And so many issues around fertility. That's the other end of it. I hope everyone gets a chance to work with their pain on these issues. But I don't think banning abortion gets us that, e.a.r. (((((((((HUGS))))))))) __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

09-25-2008, 08:49 PM	#11
Midge Faithful Gardener Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: I walk here and there, they say... Posts: 3,603	I know I said I was out of this, but... gives EAR a big squeeze hug Okay. Gone again! __________________ In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more!

09-25-2008, 09:23 PM	#12
Curufin The Ñoldóran Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mishawaka, IN Posts: 2,050	The way I see it, EAR - the choice you had, even though it may have been the wrong one for you (after all, everyone is different and will react differently), is a choice that every woman deserves to have. Turn it around - how would you feel if you got pregnant again and were forced to have an abortion? Forcing a woman either to have or not to have an abortion is wrong. __________________ Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian

09-25-2008, 06:18 PM	#1
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	Yes, idealy a law against abortions would be perfect i believe. But i am also realistic. Its never going to happen. Right now we need to build societies that teach to wait for love and provide organizations that will help with women that have guilt after their abortion. My only way of getting through the abortion was having help. I went through a serious depression and STILL have dream of my child. Life iwth out her is hard, and I know its my fault. It is VERY IMPORTANT---sry i know its caps-----to have set ups like these

09-25-2008, 06:41 PM	#3
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	I want to share EVERYTHING. My bf and i were 'close' and he 'love me'. We were together when I was a sophomore (last yr) and I was pregnant in september. when i found out i told him. He left me and I didnt want my parents to know about the child. I got a free abortion (the advertisement said free abortions untill christmas..sick eh?). I lost it after that. Im now a junior and am still healing, but am much better.

09-25-2008, 06:50 PM	#5
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	yes. my child is dead. i murder her. and my metal anguish after was unbearable

09-25-2008, 06:55 PM	#6
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	That doesn't mean everyone's going to feel that way though. I don't think that's a good reason to say something is universally wrong....

09-25-2008, 07:00 PM	#7
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	well....i was around about oh let me see....200 other women all diff ages? they had the same problem. majority of ppl are going to and it someting no one needs to feel

09-25-2008, 07:03 PM	#8
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Where were you around these women? Was it at the support group or something like that? Obviously the women who didn't have issues wouldn't have gone to something like that so it's not really a good sample.

09-25-2008, 07:04 PM	#9
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	lol very true, my mistake. its called Rachels Vinegard.

10-02-2008, 04:18 PM	#13
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Do guys deserve a choice? __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

10-02-2008, 04:23 PM	#14
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	^In terms of what? Having input on whether or not an abortion takes place? __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-02-2008, 04:26 PM	#15
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Yes. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

10-02-2008, 04:29 PM	#16
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	I think the issue with that is... it's not men who have to go through the actual carrying of the child or the birth... ultimately the reasoning behind the legality of abortion is that it's a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her body... So that same logic can't really apply to a man because it's not a man's right to choose what to do with a woman's body... That's just from a legal standpoint though... __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-15-2008, 01:07 AM	#18
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Yes - but no one has ethical problems with spontaneous abortions __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

10-16-2008, 03:26 PM	#19
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I think the choice aspect DOES matter. I think that part of the objection against abortion includes the fact that the baby has done nothing wrong - it is an innocent at this point in time, and our society goes with "live and let live" unless the person has CHOSEN to do something so awful that society needs to apply a consequence. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

10-16-2008, 05:48 PM	#20
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I think the choice aspect does matter too. It's possible to say killing is ok in some circumstances and not in others. I, however, think abortion might be one of those times when it's ok (if not ok then the lesser of two evils), and capital punishment is not. If you think about that in terms of innocence only then it seems backwards, but not if you think about it in terms of how much harm will come out of it. Death row inmates have a developed sense of self, people who care about them, and I don't think anyone has the right to judge whether someone is evil or deserves to die. (I don't think aborted fetuses "deserve" to die either, but I think children "deserve" the best upbringing possible by parents who love and want them, and that women "deserve" to be able to make choices about their lives.)

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