06-04-2002, 06:50 PM | #141 | |
the Shrike
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But I STILL say that he wasn't on par with Morgoth or Hitler. Nor was he completely irredeemable. I think the possibility of redemption WAS there.
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06-04-2002, 08:46 PM | #142 |
The Insufferable
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Feanor was a pretty nasty guy, and certainly I would call him evil, but was he a villain?
I would say no. In a literary sense, he's more an antihero. He's one of the main protagonists, but he's flawed, and rather unheroic.
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06-05-2002, 01:02 AM | #143 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Okay. Thanks for the definition, BoP.
Here's my conclusion, from the evidence presented. . . Feanor was very much flawed, mostly by his pride and tendency to follow only his emotions, especially anger and jealousy, and he did things that were certainly evil. BUT, he was not irredeamable, and certainly not anywhere near where Morgoth or Hitler or any of the other 'super-villains,' historical, real, or fictional. So basically I agree with BeardofPants.
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06-05-2002, 11:13 AM | #144 |
Elf Lord
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Ha! He was evil! Don't tell me I don't know evil when I see it!
He comes to the meetings! As for irredeemable, well there was hope even for poor Smeagol. Next you're going to be telling me he wasn't evil, he was just a poor misunderstood victim.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-05-2002, 04:16 PM | #145 | |
the Shrike
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And he was a poor misunderstood victim.
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06-06-2002, 11:08 AM | #146 |
Elf Lord
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He was a poor misunderstood evil little canibalistic bastard you mean.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-06-2002, 11:24 AM | #147 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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06-06-2002, 01:00 PM | #148 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Maybe he just needed to get in touch with his inner child.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-06-2002, 01:13 PM | #149 |
Elf Lord
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Cannibal.
He would have eaten Bilbo. Supposedly hobbits were a type of man. He did eat babies. Unless you discount the statement about the slipping in through windows to rob cradles. Close enough for me.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-06-2002, 01:25 PM | #150 |
Hoplite Nomad
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maybe he ate his inner child
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-06-2002, 08:13 PM | #151 | |
the Shrike
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06-10-2002, 04:47 AM | #152 |
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Gollum had been horribly corrupted by the Ring. It was the Ring, not Gollum himself...wait, he did kill his cousin...I suppose he just was a misunderstood, neglected child, eh?
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06-10-2002, 06:25 PM | #153 |
Sapling
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...
Maybe he just wasnt hugged enough as a child, eh?
I think he was just corrupted by the ring. BLAME IT ON THE RINGS MAKER!!! not on the rings bearer
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06-11-2002, 12:08 PM | #154 |
Elf Lord
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Err, with that line of reasoning, I can blame the manufacturer of Alcohol any time I get in a car drunk and run over a child...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-11-2002, 12:15 PM | #155 |
Sapling
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...
that you could. And I could also blame ADHD on caffine. But I dont, so I wont. We arent talking about Alcohol though (and I hope you havent run over any little children lately!)
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06-11-2002, 12:25 PM | #156 |
Elf Lord
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The point is, when you begin to blame an individual's behavior on a substance or influence, you have removed responsibility from that individual.
And doing so makes it a viable excuse for any similar situation. Therefore Sauron is a complete innocent, because he was seduced and corrupted by Melkor.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-11-2002, 03:13 PM | #157 | |
the Shrike
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Re: ...
Quote:
He's got a point, you know... ... Better fling some mud at the cocky bugger!
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06-11-2002, 04:25 PM | #158 |
Elf Lord
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Mud?
Mud flinging women and a cocky bastard? What have I gotten myself into? I can see it now, I was corrupted by the influence of the mudflinging women...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
06-11-2002, 07:59 PM | #159 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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How about this?
Gollum/Smeagol was far from being without blame for his actions, but much was either the combined effect of the Ring, and therefore Sauron, or just the Ring, and therefore Sauron. So he's not pure and innocent excepting the corruption of the Ring, but it's not all his fault either. Just partly. I'll fling mud at people!
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06-11-2002, 09:12 PM | #160 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Hey guys, this is the Silmarillion forum, and the thread is about Feanor. Let's get back on topic.
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