05-18-2006, 01:42 PM | #141 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Well if you call way overconsumption "doing the right thing" then yeah.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
05-18-2006, 02:58 PM | #142 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Having missiles doesn't constitute pushing us around though. Well, I was detecting a bit of sarcasm in Inked's post there IRex. (Not that us Canadians are all that great at minimizing consumption either.)
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05-18-2006, 06:27 PM | #143 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arthedian
Posts: 460
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Anarchy is the only true government. The only one that can 'work' for pitiful humans. You see, humans are animals... albiet advanced psychologicalyy but nevertheless still animals. And as we see in the wild there is a kind of controlled anarchy. Humans by nature do not wish to be controlled, to have another tell them what to do no matter if it is one king, or hundreds of congressmen.
Let me ask you, whoever is reading this, if a man walked into your home at this moment and told you not to read this, not to do this not to do that, to obey his laws... would you do it? If you're sane the answer is no. And you arguee but we vote for our leader... we choose who we want so we obey the laws because we in a sesne set them ourelves. Yet we all know this 'american' government is not seleceted by the people nor for the people. you really only have to viable candidates for the us, democrats and republicans, their candidate is selected not by a vote of the people, but instead by buracrates and monopolizing business assh*ls, then once those assh*les selected their man yu have a choice of two of nowa'days the same thing, mor commonly refered to as the lesser of two evils. Then when you do vote for one of the two evils your vote never even counts, hence the bush administration... no one voted for the cock sucker... yet there he is, a dimwitted monkey obeying big business, pappa, and master cheny. My point is, this government is flawed and always will be, because humans inherantly only want and will only ever want, the best for themselves... that includes the president. So he will have stakes in the oil business, and then he will send our people to die for his busniess gain! The government i flawed because humans do not wish to obey other humans! Anarchy is the only rule... and it will come soon enough...
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"Can you feel her, running through your veins? She will always live forever!" ~ Atreyu [Her portrait in Black] "I want to see pretty people doing ugly things..." ~ Unknown "Damn it n' such!" ~ Stewie Griffen |
05-18-2006, 09:14 PM | #144 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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I'm with Giroth here. I still love America, but for the life of me, I can barely come up with a reason why.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
05-18-2006, 10:09 PM | #145 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Anarchy is a dead end, Hal. Always has been. Always will be. Just paves the way for Lenin.........
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-19-2006, 01:13 PM | #146 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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It paves the way for anyone actually. The natural state of humanity is not anarchy. Humans are more like bees or ants then anything else. They arent solitary animals. They are highly social with a tendency toward filling specific roles. Thats why humans feel somewhat insecure without a leader and why humans can commit atrocious acts in the name of "just following orders". True anarchy is an impossibility or at least a contradiction in a long term functioning human society.
Now that being said that doesnt mean that humans dont have a tendency to even the playing field when necessary ala your French Revolution and such but thats more transitionary anarchy designed to move from one governing group to another.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
05-19-2006, 03:21 PM | #147 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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Bow down and worship me, for I am your new overlord!
The stars have finally aligned! After eons of un-sleep I arise! The first item on our agenda is to eat all the stupid people. Please have them lined up and waiting in an orderly fashion at a local shopping mall or sports arena. This will solve the overpopulation problem and resource shortages and environmental decay. All on the first day of our million year reign....
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
05-19-2006, 04:05 PM | #148 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Awww, lookit who's here. It's the cute widdle diddle uckle-cums.
*quickly huggles the ... er... leg? Quote:
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05-19-2006, 04:11 PM | #149 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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And I HUGELY disagree that animals 'in the wild' are adhering to the constraints of anarchy, btw. The social networks within the animal kingdom are hugely variant for a start.
Time for a definition of anarchy, methinks : a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy. • absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal. There now. The key being that it is regarded as a political ideal, and is therefore a nice lil' human construct. Now, the question is, can we apply that to the animal kingdom? My inclination is in the negative, c'pn! This is because amongst the more social animals, we can track behaviours that are clearly cooperative. Extended family networks look after offspring, an alpha- will guard the whole group in order to extend their genetic material further. This is not anarchy. Not in any sense of the word. Anyone else reminded of NIN's Hurt when you read the title of this thread? I hurt myself today to see if I still feel I focus on the pain the only thing that's real the needle tears a hole the old familiar sting try to kill it all away but I remember everything what have I become? my sweetest friend everyone I know goes away in the end and you could have it all my empire of dirt I will let you down I will make you hurt I wear this crown of thorns upon my liar's chair full of broken thoughts I cannot repair beneath the stains of time the feelings disappear you are someone else I am still right here what have I become? my sweetest friend everyone I know goes away in the end and you could have it all my empire of dirt I will let you down I will make you hurt if I could start again a million miles away I would keep myself I would find a way
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
05-19-2006, 04:22 PM | #150 | |||||||||||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Furthermore, the surveillance always takes place when one person making the phone call is overseas. Overseas surveillance is largely the responsibility of the executive, according to the Congressional Research Service Memo I quoted before, though it requires Congressional oversight. The president is about to give full briefings to the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, so whether the oversight before was sufficient or not, it is now at least going to be certainly clarified to Congress. Also, the Senate Intelligence Committee already voted to approve the spying program, on the condition that it accept oversight from a seven-person committee. Quote:
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Second is that paying soldiers is not a direct application of force. Spying on terrorists directly compromises them. Paying soldiers or agents indirectly may damage terrorists. Spying directly may damage terrorists, just like attacking may directly damage terrorists. This is a means of primary aggression rather than secondary. The word "force" isn't the same as the word "detention" either, yet detention was taken as one application of force. Surveillance is another such application. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-19-2006, 04:41 PM | #151 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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Side note:
The main problem with having a military officer in charge of a civilian intelligence agency, is the often over looked function of the civilian intelligence agency to overwatch the military. Traditionally they haven't had any major problems working with each other anyway, other than normal red-tape. The Military already has redundant intel capability, and I'd be loathe to see that removed in some kind of cost cutting approach. I'd have no objections to the man whatsoever, as long as he resigns his commission first.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
05-19-2006, 10:03 PM | #152 | |
Spaceman Spiff
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In the belly of a Firefly, living in Serenity is where you'll find me
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*goes back to watching the game*
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05-19-2006, 10:04 PM | #153 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
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Lief - I have exams now, so I'm not going to be able to reply to this for a while. But I want to emphasize that, while I strongly believe the earlier, partially overseas wiretapping was both illegal and unconstitutional, that is NOT the program under discussion. I posted a link to the USA Today story when I revived this thread; we're talking about the recently revealed release of domestic phone records to the NSA for analysis by various phone companies. It ain't overseas, and it ain't military.
The one note I'll make now is that your caveat about Bush giving sufficient Congressional oversight is not true, since he and his Cabinet did not inform Congress of (either) program.
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