12-03-2008, 04:50 PM | #141 | |||||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-03-2008 at 04:52 PM. |
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12-03-2008, 05:02 PM | #142 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Guys - could you please give me some feedback on my departure post? There hasn't been any feedback on the actual post (except for fun side-issues, like elven pack-horses and Gil-Galad's mommy), which worries me. Is it so bad that no one wants to comment? Or is it so awe-inspiring that it struck everyone speechless?
Seriously, this is a pivotal post in the RPG - they're leaving, and they're stating their motives/desires for the trip, and I really want to get it right. Are there too many quotes? I found and just loved that first quote and thought it was a perfect match in many levels (it inspired JRRT, it mentions a major Gondolin character, etc.) Is the post too maudlin? Or is it just totally elven with their love of language, etc.? Please give me some feedback and help me get this post as good as possible!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-03-2008 at 05:28 PM. |
12-03-2008, 06:13 PM | #143 | ||||
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As for our Elves, I'm not against it, but if we do, I think we must absolutely include some reminder of 'Gee, turns out Gilgalad's mom was a great cook after all.' Quote:
If there's something I think is wrong, or might be better differently, I will say it. And I will nearly always mention the things I found really, really interesting or really, really funny. But if I'm not saying anything, you can assume I approve.
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12-03-2008, 06:17 PM | #144 |
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There aren't too many quotes, only one that isn't fully incorporated into the text and I really liked the use of elvish. It's their language, and it makes sense to use it. The heightening of tone came as a little bit of a jolt at first, but because you made use of the elvish and because the scene is the physical start of their geographical and emotional journeys it works.
Echoing LotR by having them set out at dusk instead of dawn was also a very good touch.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-03-2008, 10:56 PM | #145 |
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Here's how I see your post:
It's a solemn post for a solemn occasion - this journey isn't just a fun walk for entertainment, it's a real quest for something worthwhile. It's emphasized by people gathering to see them off, and Cirdan giving them Elbereth's blessing - as if they are doing this journey on behalf of all those who might be thinking along the same lines, but perhaps drawing different conclusions. Then the Nirnaeth veterans draw their swords according to their tradition, and pledge themselves to their mission - I especially like how, as they are all stating their motives, each of them takes the next person's hand one after the other. It shows some of their bonding as participants in the quest.
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12-04-2008, 02:21 AM | #146 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Thank you very much for your comments, Willow and Varna - sometimes my posts get too angsty, and I need a good fish-slap across the face from others.
Monty Python fish-slapping dance It looks like I basically hit the right tone here, though. I might make some minor adjustments when I'm recovered enough (surgery in 14 hours!) because I think it's a really pivotal post, but I'm glad to hear that you think the general post is fine. Thanks again, it's very helpful! And thanks for explaining your thoughts, Earniel - I know what you feel about saying "great post", "wonderful post" over and over. It gets just ... fake, even if you don't mean to be fake. That's why I try to pick out specifics when I do make a comment. I won't look out for many comments from you, since you've explained that you're just not a natural at reviewing. Give it a shot from time to time, though bye!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-04-2008 at 02:29 AM. |
12-12-2008, 08:19 AM | #147 |
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A lighter toned post - because there just aren't enough elfling vs. walrus encounters. Varna, I borrowed Arindis and Erufalion, let me know if you want me to edit their bits.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-12-2008, 11:54 AM | #148 |
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Should the children clamor for one more story - and have Rameldir tell the story of how Erufailon saved Arindis from drowning (as he heard it from his mother)? I would have to work out the details, I only know that Erufailon did. So perhaps it would be better to leave that story for some other night, and perhaps just refer to it now, and have Rameldir promise to tell it later.
When I decided on that event, I didn't know how close family Arindis and Erufailon were, so I thought that accident and the safe outcome of it, was what made Arindis discover the lad. But now that they are closer family, they would have been in a group together even before that. Still, that event would be a turning point in their friendship, something to make her admire him a lot, and make her father have an even higher opinion of him than before. When they get to Middle-earth, they go to different places, but when they meet again at that great feast - A... something - they realise that 'this is it', and decide to get married. Would the walrus event be before or after the near drowning, do you think? They were 25 (A.) and 35 (E.) at the time, btw. When I decided that, I was seeing them as nearly teenagers at that age ... the ageing of Elflings is a complicated matter, is what I find. Their growing feelings for each other would work even if they were mentally children rather than teen-agers, I guess. ..... Rereading your post, I get the impression that this happened after he saved her from drowning. That could be why they are such good friends now, not just cousins of whatever degree. Erufailon is trying to be responsible, even though he can't stop Glor when Aredhel challenges him ... I didn't tell you that about them, did I?
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12-12-2008, 03:48 PM | #149 |
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I went and read the stuff you have posted about them in the Writer's workshop forum. I'm not sure if you mentioned the near drowing bit there or not. I can edit in a mention of the story if you like, or, since I left my post pretty open ended, you can pick up from where it leaves off and either launch into another tale or send the children off to bed with the promise of the story later on.
As for the aging stuff: If between the years of 1 and 50 we assume that elven children age at an approximate, comparative rate of three years to one, it generally works out. Since crossing the Helcaraxe took about 33 years of the (at that point non-existent) sun, I took the ages you gave for them to be the ages they started out as. I have Glor as 24 when they start and 40ish in the walrus incident with the idea in mind that it took place a few years after a massive accident with un-stable ice in which his parents, Elenwe and quite a few others were drowned/crushed/frozen. Now, despite Tolkien's insistence on describing every noble elf and elf-maid as 'tall,' the limited resources they would have had while crossing the ice don't strike me as enough to fuel adolescent growth spurts. So although the four younger elves are mentally adolescents in my last post, I envisioned Erufalion, Idril, Arindis, and Glorfindel especially, to be still fairly childsized.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi Last edited by Willow Oran : 12-12-2008 at 03:57 PM. |
12-12-2008, 04:40 PM | #150 | ||||
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I might have to do a similar thing to what you did, I guess - rather than tell the story, have him relive the memory. Not of what happened, in his case, but of asking his mother about it when she told him. And I didn't mention the near drowning in that forum, but perhaps it has been mentioned in one of the threads I linked to. Quote:
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I've been going by a chronology that someone compiled, which talked only of two or three years. See how that might make a difference? I'm fine with the correction, though. Which HoME volume haven't I read yet? Quote:
And that massive accident you mention, would then have been the same as the one where Arindis was in trouble. Their friendship would deepen after such an incident.
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12-12-2008, 05:34 PM | #151 |
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I've been using Morgoth's Ring as my primary source... The crossing did take two to three years, but years of the Trees, one of which is supposed to be equivalent to about 9.6 solar years.
I made the conversion because I'm assuming the elven growth rate is better rendered in solar years, despite the initial lack of a sun; possibly the elves measured time by movements of constellations and later on those measurements synced up with the sun's cycle. Regardless, the one time Tolkien talks about elven growth rates he makes a direct comparison to mortal child development and that just wouldn't make sense if he was in the habit of using completely seperate measures of time for the two races. Glorfindel will be very interested to hear the story, should Rameldir chose to tell it. He was in a bit of trouble himself at the time, so it'll be somewhat new to him.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-12-2008, 05:53 PM | #152 | ||
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I've also been reading Morgoth's Ring. Quote:
Perhaps they had never told the details.
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12-12-2008, 06:05 PM | #153 |
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Would they have had candid conversations about their various near death experiences when the ice gave way?
The accident may be a romantic (if terrifying) story to Erufalion and Arindis, but that same accident orphaned Glor. I think he would certainly know about it and have heard the story right away, but in a 'Thank Illuvatar they aren't dead too!' sort of context...
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-12-2008, 06:40 PM | #154 |
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Fun post, Willow! Indeed, the world needs more elfing versus walrus tales!
As it happens I was preparing a post for Hallindel in which she remembers a similar incident with a bear while hunting. Now I feel like copying you, so I'm going to shelf that post-idea for a later time.
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12-12-2008, 07:05 PM | #155 |
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Aww...
I wouldn't mind such parallels, but it's your call if you want to save it for later.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-12-2008, 07:38 PM | #156 | |
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Ah - I had missed that. They might have been less inclined to indulge in the details around him then. Or do you think they would have had those conversations, and shared details? And how much does Rameldir know about Glor's side of it? I suppose his mother would have told him of others who were less fortunate than herself ...
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12-12-2008, 08:22 PM | #157 |
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You know... I have no idea. I suppose it depends on just how the accident happened.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-12-2008, 09:23 PM | #158 |
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I'll try to work on it and see what I can find out (or we'll be working together) ...
If I need the children, it would be good to know their genders. Lhunril is a girl, and Dorochu and Idhor are boys. What about Faunuial, Naethbor, and Eirien?
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12-12-2008, 09:49 PM | #159 |
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Eirien and Faunuial are girls, Naethbor is male. The only thing I know of their ages is that Lhunril is the youngest.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
12-19-2008, 06:14 PM | #160 |
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Posted. I'm out of rhythm for writing. Must remedy by practise.
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