Discrimination - Page 8

Spock · 12-17-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

"God didn't make all men equal. Sam Colt did."
also in the same vein
"Abe Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt equalized em."

Truth, forsooth.

Insidious Rex · 12-18-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

ok, so you can't tell biting sarcasm

, how about all the white land owners who helped make SA the breadbasket, along with Zimbabwe, of the continent and who were killed and driven out with the "revolutionary equal rights" people starting with Mandella and Mugubie.
The entire continent has suffered this reverse discrimination and the countries which supplied the grain, etc. have almost imploded with problems.

Are you really actually trying to justify the white invasion of southern africa here by saying well the whites brought farming to the blacks and supplied the rest of africa with food?? Bet them injuns are better off for us making the midwest the "breadbasket" of the nation too eh? How dare they resent us for that. So what if it involved a bit of ethnic cleansing, systematic brutality and bold faced racist extremism in the process...

[censored by spock equate Nelson Mandella with Mugabe who is an ignorant, corrupt and oppressive clod.

inked · 12-31-2005, 01:59 PM

Only in America........?

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3396

Wouldn't you say that this was true discrimination?

inked · 12-31-2005, 02:03 PM

This should be included with the above.....

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3411

Mercutio · 01-01-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

Only in America........?

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3396

Wouldn't you say that this was true discrimination?

...

inked · 01-03-2006, 11:12 AM

Obviously not!

Mainstream Media won't note these events...

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3453

brownjenkins · 01-03-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

This should be included with the above.....

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3411

from stars and stripes:

Quote:

Klingenschmitt said he fell out of favor with Navy officials for refusing to drop “Jesus” and other Christian-specific language from his public comments.

He believes his superiors are working toward discharging him from the service and the chaplain’s corps, and has filed a lawsuit against the Navy to keep his post. His contract runs out Dec. 31, and he said officials will not provide the necessary paperwork for him to continue in the chaplain’s role.

Navy spokesman Lt. William Marks said Klingenschmitt is still an active-duty sailor in good standing, has no disciplinary action pending, and has not received any punishment for language used in public forums. He would not comment on the paperwork accusation.

Marks also said that rules governing Navy chaplains do not limit what they can say during religious ceremonies but do specify that chaplains should “focus on practices the faiths have in common” when speaking at secular and public events.

The rules are explained to all chaplains during their training, Marks said, and are the same for all faiths.

inked · 01-03-2006, 05:17 PM

"He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where "they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God," he said. "But if you pray in Jesus' name, they counsel you."

Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added.

But the Rev. Billy Baugham, executive director of the Greenville, S.C.-based International Conference of Evangelical Chaplain Endorsers, says restrictions on other religious expressions have "yet to be tested."

"No Islamic chaplain has been refused to pray in the name of Allah, as far as we know. Neither has a rabbi been rebuked for making references to Hanukkah, and no Catholic priest has been rebuked for referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary."

The Navy allows chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Allah or any other deity during chapel services, spokeswoman Lt. Erin Bailey said.

At other public events, "Navy chaplains are encouraged to be sensitive to the needs of all those present," she said, "and may decline an invitation to pray if not able to do so for conscience reasons." Lt. Klingenschmitt has not been formally punished, she added, and there are no plans to take him off active duty."

I note your sig, BJ.

brownjenkins · 01-03-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

The Navy allows chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Allah or any other deity during chapel services, spokeswoman Lt. Erin Bailey said.

At other public events, "Navy chaplains are encouraged to be sensitive to the needs of all those present," she said, "and may decline an invitation to pray if not able to do so for conscience reasons." Lt. Klingenschmitt has not been formally punished, she added, and there are no plans to take him off active duty."

all they are asking is that during general public addresses the chaplin try to take a wider view of "god" than the purely christian one, while still being allowed to be as narrowly focused on their own flavor of salvation when giving specific services... it doesn't seem to be that unreasonable of a request to me?

what's more important, the message or the word "jesus"?

Jon S. · 01-03-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garina

Christianity is supposedly the main religion in the UK, so why is it that Christians seem to be in a minority and are constantly teased about their beliefs?

If I insulted a black person about the colour of their skin, or a Muslim about their religion, there would be hell to pay. I would be ostracised and severely punished. Yet people seem to feel it is their right to make fun of my beliefs. How is this fair?

All I'm attempting to do now is provide you with one possible answer to the question you yourself have posed.

The difference between the black, the Muslim, and you is the black and Muslim don't tell you you're damned to eternal hell for your beliefs. You, on the other hand, tell (if not personally, via your theology) the Muslim that he is so damned. You also, perhaps, tell the black as many blacks are Muslim, animist, atheistic, or in some other non-Christian group.

To be clear, I'm not asking you to agree this is right. I'm merely providing you with a possible answer to the question you yourself have posed. Do you understand the point here?

inked · 01-04-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

all they are asking is that during general public addresses the chaplin try to take a wider view of "god" than the purely christian one, while still being allowed to be as narrowly focused on their own flavor of salvation when giving specific services... it doesn't seem to be that unreasonable of a request to me?

what's more important, the message or the word "jesus"?

The scandal of particularity again, eh? For Christians, Jesus is the issue, BJ.

brownjenkins · 01-04-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

The scandal of particularity again, eh? For Christians, Jesus is the issue, BJ.

and therein lies the problem... this preacher is not able to distinguish the importance of getting his message across to as many people as possible from his own personal views on how this message should be delivered... it is all about him and his own beliefs... the messenger is of greater importance than the message

this is why so many well-intentioned religions ultimately fail at transmitting the, admittedly very positive, moralities the try to teach

it's not discrimination at all to take the kind of dual-approach the other chaplins are suggesting... it is simply common sense

inked · 01-04-2006, 12:41 PM

BJ,

It is NOT his personal view. That's the problem. It is the stated reality of the Christian Church. I refer you to the Creeds and the New Testament and, of course, 2000 years of historical proclamation.

Personalizing it does not make the problem non-existent. It is merely a postmodernist ploy to avoid reality...yet again!

brownjenkins · 01-04-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

It is NOT his personal view. That's the problem.

being a christian is a personal view!

not everyone who believes in god is a christian... is it so difficult to ask him to acknowledge and respect this fact?

discrimination stems from this kind of elitist mentality... that one religion or another, or one nation or another, owns the much more universally-human concepts of morality... "if i can't preach in the name on jesus, then i'm not gonna preach at all"

if this individual took a bit more time to understand his non-christian fellows, he might actually realize how similar his views are and how little he'd be giving up by showing a bit of respect

this is not post-modern... it's an issue thinkers have been wrestling with since before jesus was born

Insidious Rex · 01-04-2006, 03:10 PM

And one good military religious "discrimination" story deserves another...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/ap...acad-a30.shtml

I really wonder what is more prevelant in the military... Anti christian discrimination? Or pro christian bullying?

Spock · 01-04-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

being a christian is a personal view!

this is not post-modern... it's an issue thinkers have been wrestling with since before jesus was born

Actually there weren't any Christians until after Jesus started his ministry.

brownjenkins · 01-04-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Actually there weren't any Christians until after Jesus started his ministry.

i was speaking of the issue of putting "the man" above "the word"

Spock · 01-04-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

i was speaking of the issue of putting "the man" above "the word"

...but you can't put the man above the word until there is a man

brownjenkins · 01-04-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

...but you can't put the man above the word until there is a man

to put it more simply... philosophizing about the pros and cons of religion has existed long before the birth of jesus... it is not "post-modern" as our good friend inked likes to say

the names have changed, but the ideas our the same... and that is the important part, being able to separate the ideas from the names

inked · 01-04-2006, 06:16 PM

Sorry, BJ,

It's the old Lord, liar, or lunatic problem.

Jesus claims to be God, that eternity is dependent upon one's response to His claims, and that His activity is the Source of All-that-is.

It's not the ideas, Dude, it's the Person of Jesus, Yeshua bar Yosef, Incarnate Creator, Redeemer, and Savior of humanity.

Now, will you be taking the poached egg dude or the liar dude or the God of the Universe dude?

12-31-2005, 01:59 PM	#143
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Only in America........? http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3396 Wouldn't you say that this was true discrimination? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

12-31-2005, 02:03 PM	#144
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	This should be included with the above..... http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3411 __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-03-2006, 11:12 AM	#146
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Obviously not! Mainstream Media won't note these events... http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=3453 __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-03-2006, 05:17 PM	#148
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	"He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where "they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God," he said. "But if you pray in Jesus' name, they counsel you." Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added. But the Rev. Billy Baugham, executive director of the Greenville, S.C.-based International Conference of Evangelical Chaplain Endorsers, says restrictions on other religious expressions have "yet to be tested." "No Islamic chaplain has been refused to pray in the name of Allah, as far as we know. Neither has a rabbi been rebuked for making references to Hanukkah, and no Catholic priest has been rebuked for referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary." The Navy allows chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Allah or any other deity during chapel services, spokeswoman Lt. Erin Bailey said. At other public events, "Navy chaplains are encouraged to be sensitive to the needs of all those present," she said, "and may decline an invitation to pray if not able to do so for conscience reasons." Lt. Klingenschmitt has not been formally punished, she added, and there are no plans to take him off active duty." I note your sig, BJ. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-04-2006, 12:41 PM	#153
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	BJ, It is NOT his personal view. That's the problem. It is the stated reality of the Christian Church. I refer you to the Creeds and the New Testament and, of course, 2000 years of historical proclamation. Personalizing it does not make the problem non-existent. It is merely a postmodernist ploy to avoid reality...yet again! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-04-2006, 03:10 PM	#155
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	And one good military religious "discrimination" story deserves another... http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/ap...acad-a30.shtml I really wonder what is more prevelant in the military... Anti christian discrimination? Or pro christian bullying? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

01-04-2006, 06:16 PM	#160
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Sorry, BJ, It's the old Lord, liar, or lunatic problem. Jesus claims to be God, that eternity is dependent upon one's response to His claims, and that His activity is the Source of All-that-is. It's not the ideas, Dude, it's the Person of Jesus, Yeshua bar Yosef, Incarnate Creator, Redeemer, and Savior of humanity. Now, will you be taking the poached egg dude or the liar dude or the God of the Universe dude? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

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