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09-03-2008, 11:46 AM | #141 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 987
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How about the clue that the Hobbits all had fairly vivid dreams in his house? Bring any other Maiar or Valar to mind?
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09-03-2008, 12:12 PM | #142 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Can't remember the other's dreams, but for one it involved water and a swamp.. I think I didn't quite get your point DPR
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09-03-2008, 04:19 PM | #143 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
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There was one Vala specialist of dreams. He was called Irmo or Lorien. I think DPR hints at him.
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09-03-2008, 04:33 PM | #144 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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Now I'm really scraping my memory but was it Sam who specifically dreamt about nothing?
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09-03-2008, 04:41 PM | #145 | ||
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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In honesty though, I wouldn't read too much into the collective message of the dreams the four hobbits had. Having Frodo dream of Gandalf's escape, which is the main message I'd take from the dreaming, I think it's fair to say that Tolkien wanted to serve the readers the three other hobbit's dreaming as well; in the name of companionship and all That being said, I don't claim to agree with Gene Hargrove's theory, except to say that I think it is well-thought through.
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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09-03-2008, 04:56 PM | #146 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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As I consider it more, I believe the description is along the lines of whatever dreams Sam had were like those of a log, if logs could dream.
I'll have to look it up when I get home!
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09-03-2008, 10:12 PM | #147 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Irmo and Este have just as good a case (probably better) than Aule and Yavanna.
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~The DPR "Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." |
09-05-2008, 04:30 AM | #148 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Teatime_with_the_Dark_Lord |
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09-05-2008, 01:06 PM | #149 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 987
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A few of my favorites: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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09-05-2008, 01:21 PM | #150 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
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Yea, cute little ficlet. My fav part is is:
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09-05-2008, 09:59 PM | #151 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Posts: 455
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09-06-2008, 02:09 PM | #152 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Posts: 1,125
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I like what JRRT said about him: Tom is a mystery, and we will never figure him out.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
09-11-2008, 11:19 PM | #153 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
Posts: 561
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OP here! Cannot believe this thread I started is still kicking around after 7 years!
My original thoughts are about the rings effects on Tom...or lack of!
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! Last edited by ringbearer : 09-11-2008 at 11:20 PM. |
12-03-2008, 05:14 PM | #154 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sunny sunny England
Posts: 11
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I would say that Tom Bombadil was, if anything, Middle-earth itself. People have claimed he's the Witch-king of Angmar, which he clearly isn't.
There is one major clue that people often overlook. Tom Bombadil is oldest. He is the first. But Gandalf says to Theoden when speaking of Treebeard that when he meets Treebeard he will meet "The oldest living thing" This means that Tom Bombadil is not even alive. |
12-03-2008, 05:37 PM | #155 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sunny sunny England
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Bleh...disregard that post. Just realised someone said the same earlier.
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12-03-2008, 05:41 PM | #156 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sunny sunny England
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Oh, and another thought I had regarding Goldberry rather than Tom is that Tom states that "It's Goldberrys washing day" and Tolkien stresses greatly the fact that it's raining outside. Now I wouldn't imagine that Goldberry was the 'under the thumb-male dominated' type. Nor would she wash clothes out in the rain. I would think that perhaps Tom is the the warm weather, or the sun. And Goldberry is the wet weather, or the rain itself. The entire chapter seems to give that feeling.
To reinforce this belief there are a number of points... Tom seems to want to stay inside when its raining. He seems quite happy to let Goldberry do her thing, to wash the land. Its her turn and he will sit inside and chill out with the hobbits. The rain has no effect on him. He comes inside from the rain and is completely dry. And my favorite is the fact that the two seem to dance around, he jolly and capering, her sad and beautiful, yet they seem to create one dance and never get in each others way. Symbolic of course, but I like to think of it that way. Last edited by Ant : 12-03-2008 at 05:53 PM. |
12-05-2008, 01:09 AM | #157 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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It's a nice point.
It goes back to my point earlier in this thread (and almost a decade ago ), Tom, and probably Goldberry as well, represent beings who are truely at peace with their own existance and place in life. There's no desire, or yearning for something greater. Simply happiness for what is. Enjoying the moment for what it is. A rare quality among us lesser beings.
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12-05-2008, 12:27 PM | #158 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
Join Date: Dec 2006
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That is indeed a nice idea, but Tom said he's no weathermaster. Otherwise it would have worked beautifully.
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12-05-2008, 12:50 PM | #159 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sunny sunny England
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Ah, but the sun isnt a master of weather He takes his turn, as does the wind and the rain, and the snow.
Tolkien never ever suggested that characters might represent weather and when Saruman seems to bring snow down on the fellowship, one could look at it as his power of charm to bring down the snow. He is no weather master, but a master of minds and manipulation. Say he wanted to bring sun light down on the fellowship (or had Legolas taken Gandalf literally and gone off to find the sun) perhaps these things would have involved Bombadil and Suaruman using his powers of persausion. But Legolas of course refers to the sun as a 'she'. Still, I don't doubt that you are right. But Tolkien was certainly capable of and willing to use sybolism. The books are packed with it. "Who was Tom Bombadil?" Is the same question as "Who was Jack the Ripper?" We will never know. We can have our theories, and discuss it until the end of time, but we will never know. As someone stated, pure inspiration from Tolkien. It's what makes a book timeless. |
12-05-2008, 03:09 PM | #160 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven by the looks of it. Hell by the feel of it.
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I agree, Ant. Just wanted to test the newbie a bit.
Guess there'll be soon a thread of how Saruman brought that snow and storm on the Fellowship... We're really splitting hairs here, aren't we? That's just überfun.
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