02-09-2003, 10:21 AM | #141 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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I know - check "Men in the Silm" thread in the Sil forum
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02-09-2003, 11:18 AM | #142 | |
The Tall
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Quote:
I think that R*an too would have that opinion.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-09-2003, 11:39 AM | #143 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
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You're doing the comparison, not me
Edit: A misinterpretation
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 02-09-2003 at 12:08 PM. |
02-09-2003, 01:14 PM | #144 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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I think that although Tolkien says that Hurin was the greatest of the Edain, people may not see or agree with that because although he was held captive and endured this captivity for many years, outside of his actions in the Nirnaeth, there really isn't many deeds to note of Hurin because of his lengthy captivity.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
02-12-2003, 10:34 AM | #145 | |||
Elven Warrior
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Thanks, Artanis. That is indeed the quote I had read years ago.
It's not off topic to bring in Faramir, descendant of the Edain; not when one considers Tolkien's view of the past as a time when everything and everybody was always very great, energetic and intense, with the force weakening over time. All writers of heroic tales have taken the same view (though JRRT's presentation of it as the actual physical fading of the Elves was quite original, I think). Gandalf's little rant about the lack of heroes in the neighborhood in the early part of The Hobbit is another, more typical expression of it. As the formula goes, once upon a time there were giants in the earth..... And Faramir's "theme" is love: love for his brother, love for "that which they defend: the city of the Men of Númenor," and so he loves and is able to melt the cold heart of the Maiden of the Rohirrim. It's a much more gentle love than Beren's, but that is quite in line with the above formula. Quote:
However, this modern tendency to compartmentalize things conditions everything we see today, while JRRT was coming from an earlier time, when life was not lived in little boxes of mind and body and heroes were indeed expected to be "well rounded," that is, capable of great feelings as well as great deeds on the battlefield. Indeed, through Faramir he decries the growing tendency even then to concentrate on the merely physical: Quote:
Thus I say, Beren was the greatest of the Edain, as he was great in love as well as war. Húrin's tragedy: Morgoth darkened his love. Beren's was never touched, and so he overcame all.
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02-12-2003, 12:55 PM | #146 | |
The Tall
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Location: Formenos
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Quote:
Why? Because Tolkien states that it is Húrin who has the greatest spirit of any mortal men. Húrin is the greatest warrior of Mortal Men. Húrin, despite his darkened spirit by Morgoth, never gave up and in the end he kept his word and returned to his wife. You said it, Beren's love was never touched the way Húrin was, could Beren had survived it the way Húrin did? Answer: No. Why? Because he didn't have the strength of spirit that Húrin the Steadfast had. I like it the way you chose to ignore the fact that Húrin didn't have any help nor hope of escaping Angband and yet he didn't back down or broke. A lesser man would have done that, Húrin is not the lesser man.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-12-2003, 02:21 PM | #147 |
the Shrike
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If Hurin was so great, then why was it that Tolkien chose the character of Turin to come back in the last great battle to avenge the house of Hurin, rather than Hurin?
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
02-12-2003, 03:01 PM | #148 | |
The Tall
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Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-12-2003, 03:20 PM | #149 |
Elven Warrior
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its Hurin not only is he steadfast and indominatable but he killed 70 trolls in that battle while even before they started fightin huor got shot in the eye.and you cant compare hurin with tuor what did he do of his own will if it wasnt for ulmo he wouldnt have gotten anywere
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02-12-2003, 09:00 PM | #150 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Quote:
LOL, go back and read that passage about him and the 70 trolls, it clearly says that the trolls were trying to take him captive. They were not really fighting with him, but instead used the rush mentality to take him away alive!
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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02-12-2003, 09:23 PM | #151 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
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From the Published Silmarillion: Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-12-2003, 10:29 PM | #152 | ||
High King of Númenórë
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Quote:
Well if you recall from Unfinished Tales, the first chapter "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin", here is a passage from it: Quote:
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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02-14-2003, 08:32 AM | #153 |
Elven Warrior
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Hurin was kicking major Orc butt at 17, and Huor at 13 (or 14) when Brethil was invaded by Orcs.
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02-15-2003, 01:27 PM | #154 |
Elven Warrior
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Location: London
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Hurin
I think Hurin was the greatest of all the mortal men. When captured by the orcs he slew many of them. Each time he slew an orc he cried out something (can't remember what). 70 times he cried out.
Also i like what he did to Mim the dwarf. But sadly died like that. Its a shame such a great worrier died by killing himself, that goes for Turin aswell (also one of the greatest of the race of men). |
02-15-2003, 03:23 PM | #155 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England.
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Hurin slew Trolls, not Orcs.
And, I can't find a reference to Hurin worrying a lot. |
02-15-2003, 06:33 PM | #156 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Quote:
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
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