06-25-2006, 03:43 PM | #141 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...."when you assume you make an ass of u and me" Tony Randall, The Odd Couple
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06-25-2006, 03:47 PM | #142 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Spock
You are right, but I guess I can't be perfect, my friend. But making a mistake without acknowledging it, now that is the spark from which many fires spring.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 06-25-2006 at 04:02 PM. |
06-25-2006, 03:49 PM | #143 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
06-25-2006, 04:02 PM | #144 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Oh Earnil!!!
Earnil, you said:
Quote:
http://egyptologist.org/discus/messa...tml?1027386079 It is the same link I have been asking Elfhelm to repost for some time now; So all may see how much the debate "supported his ideas" as he claims.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 06-25-2006 at 04:04 PM. |
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06-25-2006, 09:55 PM | #145 | ||
Word Santa Claus
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From the first post in that debate you linked to, Telcontarian:
Quote:
Quote:
I think this is pretty clear evidence that he is indeed trying to translate hieroglyphics as Arabic, instead of as their own language, as was suggested upthread. Yet they are not the same language - Arabic only comes into Egypt after the 600s AD.
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Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. |
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06-25-2006, 11:45 PM | #146 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Very interesting!!!
If what you say is true, it is the most compelling arguement posted by anyone on this site, against the claims of Alsaadawi.
However two things, I have nothing but your word that al is purely an arabic word and this goes for the song as well. I need proof as in references. Also, as you can see, his site, though it is made so that it can be read for the most part by the english speaking, it is also made for arabic apeaking peoples. My point being is this: the translation: [G29-N35-N5] = ba-n = ba-ya-n = al-bayan = albayan = the rhetoric. Isn't he just translating bayan into arabic as albayan, as he has done for the english version, which is the rhetoric. Alsaadawi wouldn't just give the english meaning, the translation before the phrase;"the rhetoric," I believe is simply the arabic version, which is, "albayan."
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 06-26-2006 at 12:04 AM. |
06-26-2006, 01:23 AM | #147 | ||
Word Santa Claus
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Quote:
http://mycopticchurch.com/coptic/lexicon.asp Arabic ones aren't hard to find if you Google. You'll find that the prefix "al-" meaning "the" is Arabic, but the prefix meaning "the" in Coptic is "p" or "pe." As for the song, you could translate it word for word (although that 3 is clearly some symbol that the ASCII code couldn't handle). But it is clearly in Arabic, because it is a contemporary Egyptian song. And the language spoken in contemporary Egypt is Arabic. Has been for over a thousand years. Quote:
Second, he makes no preliminary translation. He goes directly into the phonemes of the Arabic translation - directly to "ba-n" (which he then expands to bayan). If he were making two translations as you propose, he would have some other phoneme first; instead he jumps straight to Arabic. His assumption is that the phonetic structure of Ancient Egyptian must be the same as that of Arabic, because Arabic is what is spoken in Egypt now; he ignores the millenia of change, especially the sharp break that came with the Muslim conquest of Egypt.
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06-26-2006, 02:34 AM | #148 | ||
the Shrike
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This is a link to the Gardiner sign list : http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm
A link to a dictionary : http://www.hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/...y=tr&ch=A&cs=1 Transliteration of G29-N35-N5 is : bA.n.re bA = 'animation' or 'manifestation' / (soul) n = to/for/of re = Re (or Ra) lit trans. 'Soul of Re' (however, you DO need to see the context of the hieroglyphs to provide a proper translation). With regards to the egyptian languages, one should remember that the evolution is thus : Archaic Egyptian -> Old Egyptian -> Middle Egyptian - Late Egyptian -> Demotic -> Coptic (with the extinction of the spoken language occurring when Coptic (with a modified greek script) died out and was replaced by Arabic) From Wikipedia.com Quote:
From Wikipedia.com : Quote:
An egyptian proverb of sorts : n rx.n=tw mAa.t r grg - One (who) can not distinguish truth from falsehood!
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 06-26-2006 at 04:08 AM. |
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06-26-2006, 07:39 AM | #149 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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**flaming is not permitted**
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by Spock : 06-26-2006 at 09:39 AM. Reason: flame-removed for violation of rules |
06-26-2006, 08:08 AM | #150 |
the Shrike
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Sorry ....**personal attack edited by MOD**, but I am of course free to post where I like on this board. ::shrug:: In any case, I've made my points and backed them up. ****please keep a civil debate*****
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by Spock : 06-26-2006 at 09:44 AM. |
06-26-2006, 08:57 AM | #151 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
LOL! Last edited by Spock : 06-26-2006 at 09:45 AM. Reason: drug reference edited out by MOD |
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06-26-2006, 08:58 AM | #152 | ||
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
There are problems that come up again though. I have noticed that the rhetoric translation you provided, is taken from the link that I provided earlier. On that debate forum, Alsaadawi provided other translations as well, which were directly into english. Further more, on this site he was debating professional egyotogists, none made the points you have brought up. Infact, see below: Quote:
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 06-26-2006 at 09:12 AM. |
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06-26-2006, 09:22 AM | #153 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Also!!!!
This is what was said right after the post about the translation you have given:
Quote:
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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06-26-2006, 09:34 AM | #154 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Quote:
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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06-26-2006, 09:49 AM | #155 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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ooooooooooo gawd, not another charged thread
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
06-26-2006, 03:05 PM | #156 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Actually, the old language that is closest to ancient Egyptian is Nubian, and it is not a written language, according to my Egyuptian co-worker. Her father speaks Nubian. It has changed a lot over the last few THOUSAND years, and would be unrecognizable to an Ancient Egyptian.
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06-26-2006, 03:20 PM | #157 |
the Shrike
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Dude, that 'flame' (bub) you edited out is what wolverine calls kitty in the x-men. It's a pet name not a flame. FYI.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
06-26-2006, 04:58 PM | #158 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Quote:
Where I wrote Egyuptian above, assume I hit two keys at once. Sawwy... |
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06-26-2006, 05:29 PM | #159 | |
Sapling
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When people cease to believe in God they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything
-G.K. Chesterton Quote:
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06-26-2006, 05:44 PM | #160 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Actually, it seemed to me the first time as a new twist on Holocaust Denial.
Quote:
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