03-21-2005, 03:51 PM | #141 |
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So Nurvi, what do you think about my response to your post?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-21-2005, 05:31 PM | #142 | |||
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We cross-posted. To unbury, I think this:
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I do think that humans are animals.
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03-21-2005, 06:01 PM | #143 | ||
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03-21-2005, 07:50 PM | #144 | |
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R*an: my point about lizards, apes, etc is not that we're "different" from animals in any evolutionary sense. What I mean is that they are not of our species, so we are not going to be marrying them as they aren't citizens. It says nothing of our superiority, inferiority, or anything else other than that we DO NOT SHARE THEIR SPECIES. As for polygamy, yes, there are court challenges to it coming through on the heels of Lawrence v. Texas. But there is also a precedent (as I mentioned) of the state having compelling interest in preventing polygamy dating back to the 1800s, so I doubt the success of the court challenges. Because unlike homosexual marriage, polygamy is not a 1-1 bond (which I believe is the reason for the precedent against it).
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03-21-2005, 07:59 PM | #145 | |
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03-21-2005, 08:01 PM | #146 | |
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03-21-2005, 08:48 PM | #147 | ||
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03-21-2005, 09:36 PM | #148 |
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Excellent always glad to have more up-to-date info. Those 5 would be NJ, ME, MA, VT and HI, then?
It turns out NY's Supreme Court ruled last month that it will have to join the throng as well. Making 6 (according to my most recent Google search ) CA's court challenge got tossed out (they have a limited registration, as the article points out, but it does not have even close to the same rights), and WA's is still in the courts. That's the other 2 I know of.
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03-21-2005, 10:41 PM | #149 | |
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03-22-2005, 02:29 AM | #150 | |
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The second part you quoted is true - if you find that thread you'll see people saying that. I didn't say YOU said it, though. I was merely pointing out that other people HAVE said it, and justify certain behaviors because "other animals do it", then they do NOT like other animal behaviors, and that seems logically inconsistent to me.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-22-2005, 03:25 AM | #151 | ||||
Elf Lord
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I made the time to come online today. The subjects have me too involved.
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We definitely have not been brought up where one kind of behavior is encouraged for girls and another for boys. We aren't brought up in the public school system, which means there have been no society pressures on us to conform. Nevertheless, both of my sisters chose rapidly to abandon the tussles my brothers and I got into. My younger sister hates the leadership type decisions, but like my mother, has great compassion and love. To me, she fits the feminine role quite well, and went there without any pressure on her to become that way. With my older sister it's a little tough to see. She certainly abandoned the games us boys were involved in quite early. I can't see very clearly into her though. I don't know how masculine or femine she is. She's a very lovable sphinx . Quote:
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If we say that a preponderence of evidence against marriages or civil unions is necessary for us to have first, we are putting ourselves in jeopardy by expanding laws to include things we know nothing about. It could be good and fine, or it could be disaster. We just wouldn't know. We don't know either what would happen if we thrust this new factor (homosexual marriage) into society. What kind of effects would there be? What kinds of changes in society? Your belief is none, or few. Not worth considering. But your very statement "not worth considering through research data," (I'm paraphrasing, based on the impression I'm getting from your posts) is a simple belief, based on an opinion. An opinion, and that's all. Not that that means your opinion is incorrect. It's just that your opinion, "there need be no research," is based on your belief that such research would yield no unbiased negative information about homosexual relationships. Forget "negative information." No different information, or at least not importantly different. Because of this, your statement, "your argument that research needs to be done is poor IMO," seems to me internally flawed. :/ Anyway, just my view.
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03-22-2005, 03:28 AM | #152 | |||||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-22-2005 at 03:30 AM. |
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03-22-2005, 08:34 AM | #153 | |||
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Why is research necessary to allow gay marriage? We haven't done any research on any other kinds of marriage before allowing them. What type of research would you propose?
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My boyfriend (and future husband) and I have much more in common than Britteny Spears and I. Are you suggesting that I marry Britteny Spears instead? She'd dump me after 24 hours...
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03-22-2005, 11:42 AM | #154 |
Word Santa Claus
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Lief:
I disagree about the degree to which the differences between men and women are social rather than innate. I think a large fraction of them are socially created or constructed, rather than inborn. I could pull examples about, say, my cousins (homosexual) who wanted to get married in California. They definitely cover both stereotypically "masculine" and "feminine" roles. Also, homosexual couples can already adopt children pretty much everywhere in the US, so the homosexual marriage issue (at least here) is not about whether children grow up better with parents of the different genders, because allowing homosexuals to marry would not change their ability to adopt. So the issue is whether it would cause any harm to society, and I personally would view it that, in light of the fact that homosexual couples already live together OUT of wedlock and this doesn't seem to have done anything particularly harmful, it can't be a major problem to allow them the right to actually marry and thereby have a legal relationship that binds them together.
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03-22-2005, 02:36 PM | #155 | |
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03-22-2005, 03:38 PM | #156 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I don't think gay marriage would be harmful to society. I just see no need to change the definition of marriage which has been around for centuries. Even in times when homosexuality was VERY accepted like Roman times - homosexual marriage was not allowed. It was also more bi-sexuality that was accepted - and less homosexuality from my understanding. They expected you after a certain time to settle down with a wife.
The biggest thing seems to actually be the economic factors of homosexual marriage more than anything. The joint tax returns, the insurance benefits and all that. I have no problem with the vitiatiojns, the odption, the life and death decision parts - but what is the overall economic factor involved.
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03-22-2005, 03:43 PM | #157 | ||
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Why should gay couples not get the same economic benefits as straight couples? Or are you saying that they should?
I agree with you completely that gay marriage would not harm society. However, in this case, why not change the definition of marriage? This is an institution which continuously grows and changes. Also, "vitiatiojns"? I know you don't have time for pesky spelling but I just can't decipher this one.
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03-22-2005, 03:56 PM | #158 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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03-22-2005, 04:29 PM | #159 | |
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03-22-2005, 04:33 PM | #160 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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