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04-19-2006, 07:28 PM | #141 | |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
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This is untrue that atheists, or all those in this world who just do not believe in god, santa claus or aliens, are not motivated to prove things. What do you think scientific study is all about? Scolars of science and reason are rarely religious adherents, Rian.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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04-19-2006, 07:36 PM | #142 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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If you wouldn't mind, would someone who feels Hitler was a Christian please respond to my post 114 and posts 84-86?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-19-2006, 07:44 PM | #143 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-19-2006, 07:46 PM | #144 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-19-2006, 09:38 PM | #145 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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***temporarily Closing This Topci*****
This topic will be closed for 'cool down' for the next 24hrs. starting now.
It will be reopened after that time period or earlier if TPTB get a chance to evaluate this topics direction.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-20-2006, 06:33 PM | #146 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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ok, it's 3 hrs. early and I'm reopening this topic.
DO NOT ATTACK THE POSTER and on another note, this day, 7 yrs. since Columbine and the Fuhers birdhay anniversary: Police: MySpace foils school shooting Five teenagers arrested; alleged targets were popular students Thursday, April 20, 2006; Posted: 6:12 p.m. EDT (22:12 GMT) RIVERTON, Kansas (AP) -- Five teenage boys accused of plotting a shooting rampage at their high school on the anniversary of the Columbine massacre were arrested Thursday after details of the alleged scheme appeared on the Web site MySpace.com. Sheriff's deputies found guns, ammunition, knives and coded messages in the bedroom of one suspect, Sheriff Steve Norman said. Authorities also found documents about firearms and references to Armageddon in two suspects' school lockers.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-20-2006, 06:56 PM | #147 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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and stop fiddling with my topic title please
I've tried to modify the title of this thread so that it shows up as a title and not as ---. I almost had it a few moments ago but then it reverted. Hopefully it now will stay as titled and show for all devotees of the subject.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 04-20-2006 at 07:03 PM. |
04-20-2006, 07:21 PM | #148 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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BTW, that was an interesting point, brownie! Made me think about some things. Quote:
OT - why is "hybrid" spelled with an "i" and not an "e"? One would think that "brEd" would be part of the word!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-20-2006 at 07:28 PM. |
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04-20-2006, 07:24 PM | #149 | |
Spaceman Spiff
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In the belly of a Firefly, living in Serenity is where you'll find me
Posts: 1,438
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Off topic but needs to be said.
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Do you hear that? |
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04-21-2006, 01:02 PM | #150 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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Sagan, Feynman, Harris, and Dawkins are four that spring to mind. If you think their writings haven't influenced numbers of people into a shared belief system, then I'm afraid there's no basis for continuing this discussion. Once you have a shared belief system, no matter if it's canonical or not, no matter if there is "Scripture" or not, it is only a matter of time. Because all you need for an attrocity is the concept of "them" and "us". Quote:
"As a good rule of thumb, any polemic featuring parties stating categorically that the other party is responsible for everything bad is unlikely to be veering toward fact. You are at liberty to love or loathe religion, believe in god or something else entirely; you are not entitled to assume one category of faith unique purely because of its object. And moving from there to blaming it for the ills of the world (if there’s a god involved in war, poverty and inequality it’s presumably Mammon) is not a leap of logic, or even intuition; it’s a leap of faith." http://www.nthposition.com/whatsgotthenongod.php You should read that. And then think about the commononly known "fact" repeated over and over by "freethinkers" that religion is the cause of all of mankinds ills. And then come back here and SERIOUSLY tell me you cannot imagine how it could be used to justify an attrocity.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 04-21-2006 at 01:20 PM. |
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04-21-2006, 01:16 PM | #151 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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How long did his reign last? No longer than Stalins. Why did you think I was talking about societies? I'm talking about GENETIC SELECTION. If Hitler hadn't been psychoticly self loathing, there would have been a slew of descendants. As it is, he was intent on engineering the "master race" of blonde haired, blue eyed not-Hitlers. Stalin, on the other hand... well, you'll just have to imagine the liberties the chairman took... I'll state it again plainly so you won't miss it: Short Term Benefits yield Long Term EVOLUTIONARY gains. And I'll quote myself: "In other words, because of the conflict between the human survival instincts of altruism and competition, there will always be those who choose short term benefits, because short term benefits translate into LONG term benefits when you look at genetic selection" You should be able to derive this just from looking at "normal" human behavior and thinking about it for a bit.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 04-21-2006 at 01:30 PM. |
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04-21-2006, 01:32 PM | #152 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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This is because society has "evolved" over the centuries (and continues to). There is no doubt that it is often a few steps forward and then a few steps back. But, on the whole, societies slowly realize the importance of of things like democracy, equal rights and avoiding totalitarianism and oppression. And this isn't because these ideas "sound nice" or "god wants it that way", it's because they work better in the long run. That's what evolution is all about, changes that work longterm, not changes that only benefit a generation or two.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-21-2006, 01:56 PM | #153 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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As a parallel take the statistics on the number of humans that cheat on their partners. It's because there are definate evolutionary beneifts that outweigh the risks of doing so. Quote:
Not until you show me one that's going to last for 10,000 years or so. China probably got closest, since they have about 7000 years of "continuous" culture, but really that claim breaks down rapidly under scrutiny, as they have undergone several periods of empire and invasion, revolution and rebuilding.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-21-2006, 04:15 PM | #154 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Speaking of Hitler and extermination camps, I came across a good quote from a book I'm reading called Your God is Too Safe by Mark Buchanan. Great book, IMHO.
Anyway, he quotes from a story called Roger's Version by John Updike. A earnest young evangelical says, "The Devil is doubt". Another character answers back, "Funny ... I would have said, looking at recent history and, for that matter, at some of our present-day ayatollahs and Fuhrers, the opposite. The Devil is the absence of doubt. He's what pushes people into suicide bombing, into setting up extermination camps. Doubt may give your dinner a funny taste, but it's faith that goes out and kills." I think that's a very insightful quote. I like doubt; I like questions; I like thinking. I think if one doesn't doubt, at least periodically, then one isn't thinking.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-21-2006, 04:20 PM | #155 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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I doubt your reasoning.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-21-2006, 04:24 PM | #156 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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I've heard from several different places, from "non-religious" people, that "religious" people shouldn't be able to vote or be judges or even sit in committees and offer opinions. The former group is trying to make second-class citizens of the latter group, because the latter group's beliefs are different from the former group's beliefs. A minor atrocity compared to the Holocaust, but still an atrocity - and wasn't that one of the first steps towards the Holocaust? (not that I'm expecting one in the US anytime soon, but it's a point to ponder)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-21-2006, 04:26 PM | #157 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
stupid 90-second rule!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-21-2006, 05:08 PM | #158 | |||||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Take a baby born in China and toss them into suburban America. While they might not grow up exactly like the native American, they will probably be a lot closer to the American's they grew up with in terms of culture than the Chinese they left. Quote:
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On the flipside, you can be the kind of person who effects millions long after you die and not even have a single child. Human existance is genetics and society and it is meanless to try to make conclusions that leave out one of these factors. Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-21-2006, 06:01 PM | #159 |
Enting
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in the clean air
Posts: 84
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mr hitler adiolf, not nice man think me.
Confused now be. Him christian icon?? [edited by Tessar] Lets please keep this clean. Last edited by Tessar : 04-22-2006 at 02:10 AM. |
04-22-2006, 02:13 AM | #160 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
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Ba-doh.
[edited] Last edited by Tessar : 04-22-2006 at 02:21 AM. Reason: Realized I completely misread what someone had said. |
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