06-16-2003, 12:12 AM | #1521 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
that is interesting no matter WHAT way you look at it....
|
06-16-2003, 12:13 AM | #1522 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
By the way, in the NIV Bible, it is possible to get information about all the authors of each separate gospel. I can, therefore, get you information on the authors of the Old Testament books and Revelation, if you want it, jerseydevil. I'm going to get off for a while, but I'll check the Internet again tonight. Which specific books of the Bible did you have in mind? I can't just write out all of what is said on all of them .
|
06-16-2003, 12:21 AM | #1523 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
06-16-2003, 12:27 AM | #1524 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
There are so many different versions of the bible it's funny. The History Channel also had on about the parting of the Red Sea - they've discovered that it most likely wasn't the Red Sea. There have also been scientific studies on how the plagues could have occurred naturally - but at the time they just didn't understand this so - they called them miracles.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-16-2003, 12:29 AM | #1525 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-16-2003, 12:32 AM | #1526 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
2) It wasn't any sea, obviously, as it is one of the fairy-stories. 3) Awfully coincidental. But what exactly do you mean by "occurred naturally"? Also, you didn't answer my question. "In what way is that not mentally deficit? If some people "need" to believe, as you say, in what way is this "need" not a deficit?"
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
06-16-2003, 12:43 AM | #1527 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-16-2003 at 12:45 AM. |
||
06-16-2003, 12:50 AM | #1528 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
And in what way, may I ask, would such things (if indeed they are true, which I infer by you're saying "could have" that it is debatable) mean that the hand of God was not behind them?
It also (often) gives joy to homocidal maniacs to take the lives of other human beings. It gives joy to cruel children to pull the wings or legs off of insects. At the VERY LEAST, I cannot imagine how one who believes such a way could not agree that atheists, those who do not "need to believe", have ADVANCED beyond others, and are, in this respect at least, superior to them.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-16-2003, 01:01 AM | #1529 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Very well, jerseydevil, since the only thing author you've brought up questions about is John, the author of Revelation, I'll read you what the NIV says about that.
Quote:
Quote:
The eyewitnesses We see strong evidence that the New Testament gospel writers were men of great integrity, not likely to lie in their accounts. They were reporting the words and actions of a man who called them to an extremely exacting level of integrity, and they were willing to live out their beliefs even to the point where they were tortured and killed. These individuals had nothing to gain from lying except criticism, ostracism and martyrdom. We have evidence that they were telling the truth, simply because they leave in embarrassing details that would have better been left out. Like the fact that women were the ones to find the tomb of Jesus empty. Women's testimony was counted less virtually worthless in those days. Then there is the fact that Jesus says "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" There are different things in the scriptures that would have been easier left out, but which would only be included by someone trying to get the facts down as reliably as possible. Then there's the fact that historical and archaeological details of their accounts all check out- that doesn't prove what they said, but it shows that they were committed to accuracy. Then there's the fact that the skeptics, enemies of the Christian movement, that didn't contradict the gospel accounts. On the contrary, their evidence is in support of Jesus' miracles and influence. Also those accounts were written during the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses and people that were claimed to have experienced these happenings. Thus anyone seriously interested could check them out, which meant that it wouldn't be easy to lie, about many of the things. Some of Jesus' sayings are written down in rabbi documents aside from the Gospels. Now I have presented you with some evidence for why you can give credit to the authors. Reading the posts I already gave on miracles should also show you that these things aren't mere legend, lies or fabrications, because they happen today and can happen to you (in physical effects, not just brain highs). |
||
06-16-2003, 01:04 AM | #1530 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Wow! God is mold? interesting that people worship mold.
Gwai, why do you think that Atheists are more advanced than people who believe in a deity? If you ask me, people have different needs. Some people need to believe that there is a reward for being good after they die. It gives them comfort. The idea that a better place awaits them makes the pain and suffering of this life more bearable. Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond your own death and therefore you must use your time wisely while you are alive, make this place better and eliminate the suffering here. |
06-16-2003, 01:06 AM | #1531 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Precisely.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-16-2003, 01:11 AM | #1532 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Jerseydevil, did you read my last post on the previous page? I really can see no good reason for your atheism, and it stands in the face of large amounts of evidence. Evidence that can be confirmed once and for all for you personally by Jesus himself, as he says in the Bible, if you're willing to search for him.
Well, I really have to sign off now. It's been fun discussing this subject with you all . You're all quite right, it's getting late out here and I have to go to bed. I'm going to be at a camp with my youth group through next week. Goodnight! |
06-16-2003, 01:21 AM | #1533 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
I can't see any reason for your Christianity, with large amounts of evidence pointing to there being no supernatural being that controls our fates and universe. I would not be searching for a man who has been dead for around two thousand years. That would make no sense whatsoever. |
|
06-16-2003, 01:28 AM | #1534 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
This seems to be the show. It went through everything here - the show I saw was just on the plagues. But this show even mentions the mistranslation of the Red Sea - which should actually be the Sea of Reeds. So I think it's the aame one.
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-16-2003, 01:35 AM | #1535 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
06-16-2003, 01:36 AM | #1536 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Anyway - first - new evidence shows that Revelations was not written by the Jonh they thought it was. Also - who says the people who wrote the bible were upstanding people? Have you met them? I can say anything and in a thousand years no one can say whether I was telling the truth or not. I'm sorry - but people have a reason for saying the people were to be believed. You can blindly follow it and I'm sorry - but it IS blindly following a book, but I want some evidence. Science and archeology is showing more that the thoughts on the bible are explained through known natural causes. Things that were not known before. Even if these people really DID see these things they may not have understood the natural causes behind them.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-16-2003, 01:38 AM | #1537 | |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
|
Quote:
|
|
06-16-2003, 01:41 AM | #1538 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
My atheism does not stand in the face of evidence. I personally think your beliefs stand in the face of reason.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-16-2003, 01:42 AM | #1539 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
If it was shallow, the Hebrews going thru the water was no miracle, but the Egyptians drowning in it WAS a miracle! If it was deep, then the passing thru (on DRY land) would be a miracle, but the drowning wouldn't. Or is he saying that the Hebrews slogged thru the shallow water, then the tidal wave wiped out the Egyptians, amazingly missing the Hebrews that just finished exiting the water? Well, I'll be back on this thread in earnest tomorrow, since Sunday is our day of rest - see you guys! Have a nice vacation, Lief!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
06-16-2003, 01:49 AM | #1540 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Whats on your Bookshelf? | hectorberlioz | General Literature | 135 | 02-12-2007 07:26 PM |
The Order of The Blue Flame Discussion Thread | zavron | RPG Forum | 9 | 01-01-2003 02:13 PM |
The Dreams Discussion Thread | zavron | RPG Forum | 7 | 01-01-2003 02:03 PM |
The Conspiracies! (TOC vs. DC!) Discussion thread | Duddun | RPG Forum | 11 | 12-27-2002 04:19 PM |
Y2K: a "what if" thread | Darth Tater | General Messages | 10 | 03-04-2001 03:06 PM |