Aragorn's Fall...any changes of opinion out there?

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I felt Aragorn's fall diverted too far off Tolkien's intended path.
Possibly, this scene is a subtle representation of an origional book scene. If not, what about this particullar scene makes it not too different from the book BB?

First off, my "open-minded" comment was a joke. Regarding your question, Aragorn's fall IS different from the book and was never intended to be a literal interpretation of something from the book. I see it as the vehicle that PJ chose to visually communicate some of the book's themes and to add entertaining and emotional sequences to the movie based on this plot thread.

[Nurvingiel]

Okay, never mind about the whole open-mind thing then.

This is interesting about the theme/themes. Which do you feel were represented by Aragorn's fall?

[Celebréiel]

Nurvingiel, I agree with what you said before about the theme and spirit being lost. In an interview with pj that was on again last night (did anyone see that Bravo page to screen thing?) Anywho, he was talking about and kept saying that he really wasnt gonna add his own spin on things and keep it so that all fans could love. He also said he wasnt gonna add any new things and that the more they got back to tolkien the better it was.. well I guess thats out the window *coughelveshelmsdeepcough* It just bugged me hearing him say that....*shrugs* This goes a little far from Aragorns fall, but still.
~Celebréiel

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Celebréiel
Anywho, he was talking about and kept saying that he really wasnt gonna add his own spin on things and keep it so that all fans could love. He also said he wasnt gonna add any new things and that the more they got back to tolkien the better it was.. Celebréiel

Ah... maybe he knows he fudged a little too much then, at least I think he did...

Originally posted by Celebréiel
*coughelveshelmsdeepcough*

Wassamatter Celebréiel, skateboarding Elf not Tolkien enough for ya?

[eowyngirl14]

I hated Aragorns fall. It seemed pointless to me, and I will alwaysthink so. Yes, Viggo does look very very sexy wet, but that is no exuse for scaring me half to death in the theates. If I get yelled at for posting that, the nso be it.

(I like saying that... So be it!)

[Elvedans]

OOh can I join in? So be it...so be it...so be it..hey I sound like King Triton from the little Mermaid...so be it...so be it..so...

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
This is interesting about the theme/themes. Which do you feel were represented by Aragorn's fall?

Theme # 1: Aragorn's status as an heir of kings / of Numenorian blood. By pulling Aragorn briefly away from his friends, the audience is given a chance to view Aragorn in a more noble fashion than before (thanks in large part to the music from Aragorn's theme).

Theme # 2: The Power of Aragorn & Arwen's love. Aragorn is able to push himself beyond pain and physical exhaustion because of the love he has for Arwen.

Theme # 3: The friendship of the three hunters. Some have argued here that Gimli and Legolas "deserted" Aragorn. But Jackson used Aragorn's supposed death to reinforce with the audience how much Legolas and Gimli cared for him. It also gave us a great reunion scene (I like it anyway.)

Theme # 4: Eowyn's attraction to Aragorn. The fall and Aragorn's supposed death gave Jackson an opportunity to show us Eowyn's reaction to it when Theoden and the remaining troops made it to Helm's Deep. We also observed her reaction when she saw that Aragorn was alive--and her reaction when he accepted the Elvenstar. Pretty powerful stuff.

Plus:

Increasing the Drama: This section of the book would have made for rather dull film viewing if Jackson hadn't have increased the drama and excitement by adding the Warg battle and Aragorn's fall.

I don't believe Jackson just said, "hey, I'm gonna change things around just for the hell of it." He would have stuck with the book's plotline IF he felt could have communicated these themes some other way.

[Lizra]

Hmmmm I like all those things! I must admit, I like Vigo's Aragorn so much, I'd watch him fly, and groove! Yes, the fall departed, but I enjoyed it none-the-less! This makes me want to see it again!

[eowyngirl14]

I like the fact that they added the warg battle, but I don't tink it was necisary to have Aragorn fall of a cliff.

BB, I like what you said in your last post. It really makes sense, but I still don't like his fall.

[sun-star]

Your comments on the themes are very interesting, BB. The first time I saw Aragorn's fall I cringed, and I thought it was awful (especially the part with the horse), but on a second viewing I was actually impressed. Especially with this element of it:

Theme # 1: Aragorn's status as an heir of kings / of Numenorian blood. By pulling Aragorn briefly away from his friends, the audience is given a chance to view Aragorn in a more noble fashion than before (thanks in large part to the music from Aragorn's theme).

That's absolutely true, and it's important to set it up for the audience before ROTK. Also, although I'm not normally one to look for Christ-parallels in LOTR, I couldn't avoid one here. The seen with him wandering on the horse in the desert, just before an incredibly important battle, seemed significant to me. Perhaps only to me

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
BB, I like what you said in your last post. It really makes sense, but I still don't like his fall.

That's cool, eowyngirl14. No one here is forcing you to like it. But I still think many people (including myself) who raised their eyebrows the first time they watched it, now understand why Jackson did it. Not everyone may agree with the change but even the most diehard purist now understands there was a method behind Jackson's madness.

[Celebréiel]

Cant belive im saying this(its ok I just woke up). Okay, I guess after all that, I can understand *why* Pj decided to do this. I guess it makes a little sense to have to explain this stuff to a non-tolkien reading audience, which is what PJ has been doing all along. I still hate it and dont think it was well done, but I understand why.
~Celebréiel

[Nurvingiel]

I'm with you Celébriel, I can understand the reasons that it was done, I just disagree with what was done.

I especially liked theme #3 BB, Legolas and Gimli didn't abandon him anyway, they knew he would want them to go and fight at Helm's Deep.

But Increased Drama? I definately think this is a motive to mant of the changes, but I don't think it's justified to the extent that it was done.

Increasing the Drama: This section of the book would have made for rather dull film viewing if Jackson hadn't have increased the drama and excitement by adding the Warg battle and Aragorn's fall.

Are you saying PJ doesn't have the skills to stick to the book? I think he totally has the skill, and just chose a different course of action.

TTT was definately not a boring book! It didn't need any improvement. The only times where you really need to change stuff is so the plot of the book can fit into a movie format.
TTT (book) had loads of suspense, an excellent plot, and I was riveted on every word. TTT is my favourite of all Tolien's books that I have read.

[Diamond]

I agree with Black Breathalizer. Excellent points.

The only thing that made me go "Gah!" either way was that Viggo Mortensen nearly drowned getting that footage and they only used about four seconds of it.

Di

EDIT: ::looks at her status and grins:: Indeed.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
TTT was definately not a boring book!

I never said TTT was a boring book--I was talking about the book's translation to film. PJ needed to beef it up a bit and - as sun-star pointed out above - he needed to begin setting up Aragorn's rise to the throne and his marriage to Arwen.

[Nurvingiel]

I suppose I can grudgingly half-agree, but only because he was setting up future plot points.

I still think the set up could have been better done. This particular scene is too clumsy, and Arwen doesn't fit very well.

Aragorn's marriage to Arwen doesn't need any set up anyway.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Aragorn's marriage to Arwen doesn't need any set up anyway.

I disagree. I am going to bet that the emotional payoff to the wedding will be special thanks to the set-ups that PJ developed in FOTR, TTT, and what we will see in the beginning of ROTK. The wedding in the book was nice but it didn't really mean anything to the reader because we weren't given the same understanding of Arwen that PJ is giving us in the films.

[Rána Eressëa]

The first time I saw the movie, I was outraged, scanting around with a Gollum-like voice saying, "Thieves! The filthy little thieves! They've ran Aragorn off a cliff! They've killed Haldir! They've changed Faramir!"

But then I saw it again, and sure enough, "My preciousssss . . . "

[Gwaimir Windgem]

OK, BB, I don't understand: You say that PJ gave us a better understanding of Arwen then Tolkien did: How is that possible? Since she was created by Tolkien, how does PJ know enough about her to show more of her character than the person who created her?

[Rána Eressëa]

Tolkien did give us a very good understanding of Arwen --- that is, those of us who went on to read the Appendices.