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Old 02-01-2003, 01:51 AM   #121
Sister Golden Hair
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arien the Maia
The Silmarils! lol
He never had the Silmarils.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-01-2003, 02:06 AM   #122
Arien the Maia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
He never had the Silmarils.
Yes I know...Feanor did! just an attempt to say that Feanor is the best elf ever because he made the Silmarils! I know many disagree with me but what can I say?
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Old 02-01-2003, 02:14 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Yes I know...Feanor did! just an attempt to say that Feanor is the best elf ever because he made the Silmarils! I know many disagree with me but what can I say?
You know, I don't understand this admiration for someone that, yeah, was the greatest of the Noldor in craft, but was also the ruin of them as well, and that includes a great guy like Finrod falling under the doom that Feanor created. GO FIGURE!
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-01-2003, 02:18 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You know, I don't understand this admiration for someone that, yeah, was the greatest of the Noldor in craft, but was also the ruin of them as well, and that includes a great guy like Finrod falling under the doom that Feanor created. GO FIGURE!
I can't help it! It's my nature to like the "villan".
But in this case I don't think Feanor was the real villan, just a pawn of Morgoth.
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Old 02-01-2003, 02:22 AM   #125
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Poor baby. Right!
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-01-2003, 02:49 AM   #126
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It is a tie between; Glorfindel, and celebrimbor!
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Old 02-01-2003, 06:10 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Finrod has some impressive credentials of his own, if anyone would bother to mention it. Sounds like he was just to good of a guy for most though. That's ok, I love him if nobody else does. Meanies
You should be happy. Less competition, more Finrod for you.
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Old 02-01-2003, 01:31 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
He was the fairest of all the princes of the Noldor. He was the wisest of the Exiles. He was one of the leaders of the host of Fingolfin crossing the ice. He ruled the largest realm in all of Beleriand. He built the Tower of Minas Tirith that held the pass of Sirion open to Elves and Men for many years. He was the first of the Exiles to meet and instruct Men. He strove with Sauron in songs of power. And, he gave his life to save that of a mortal Man. What else do you want from him?
Was Nargothrond bigger than Menegroth? He was not the fairest of the Ñoldor thought, that title goes to Echtelion of the fair voice. He gave his life because of an oath.
He didn't do deeds of surpassing valour though.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 02-01-2003, 02:19 PM   #129
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I am almost done with the Sil, and I am just before the story of Beren and Luthien, but thus far I'd have to say my favorite elf is Fingolfin. I was so intrigued by his battle with Morgoth and his calling him out to fight. That whole chapter was awesome. To me he seemed the mightiest of elves and was yet so noble and wise, however full of rage and fury with the evil of the world.
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.'

'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin

"Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!"
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Old 02-01-2003, 02:29 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maedhros
Was Nargothrond bigger than Menegroth?
From the Silmarillion. Houghton Mifflin edition.
Quote:
Thus the realm of Finrod was the greatest by far, though he was the youngest of the great lords of the Noldor, Fingolfin, Fingon, Maedhros, and Finrod Felagund.
Quote:
He was not the fairest of the Ñoldor thought, that title goes to Echtelion of the fair voice.
I did not say fairest of the Noldor, I said fairest of all the princes of the Noldor.
Quote:
He died then in the dark, in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, who's great tower he himself had built. Thus King Finrod Felagund, fairest and most beloved of the house of Finwe, redeemed his oath, but Beren mourned beside him in despair.

They buried the body of Felagund upon the hill-top of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar
Quote:
He gave his life because of an oath.
That's right, an oath of "abiding love and friendship." What's your point? Are you saying that because it was an oath makes it less heroic. I thought it was very gallant.
Quote:
He didn't do deeds of surpassing valour though.
Why? He fought bravely in the wars of Beleriand. As a matteroffact, it says that in the Dagor Bragollach, that 'the sons of Finarfin bore most heavily the brunt of the assault.'

So I ask you again, what else do you want from him?
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-01-2003, 02:37 PM   #131
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Sam Gamgee

Haldir or Galadriel. I'm thinking about naming a daughter Galadriel. Don't ask my why I like Haldir. I just do. But really, I'm more of a hobbit person.
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LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES!

you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best
i've been gone for a month
i've been drunk since i left
there so-called vacations
will soon be my death
i'm so sick from teh drink
i need home for a rest
we arrived in december and london was cold
so we stayed in thebars
along charing cross road
we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak
kept a shine on the bar
with the sleeves of our coats
-chorus-
euston station the train journey north
in the buffet car we lurched back and forth
past odd crooked dykes
through yorkshire's green fields
we were flung into dance
as the train jigged and reeled
you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best
i've been gone for a month
i've been drunk since i left
there so-called vacations
will soon be my death
i'm so sick from teh drink
i need home for a rest
take me home....
by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets
a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet
she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down
then walk us on home and deny us a round
-chorus-
the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb
and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room
i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon
and don't lift up my head
'till the the twelve bells at noon
you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best
i've been gone for a month
i've been drunk since i left
there so-called vacations
will soon be my death
i'm so sick from teh drink
i need home for a rest
take me home....
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Old 02-01-2003, 03:28 PM   #132
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Maedhros, after our little chat off the board, I have decided to overlook everthing you have said about Finrod.

Also, I believe that the Sil. is considered canon eventhough it is flawed and was published posthumously. BoLTs is not canon. The Sil is still considered to be the newer mythology that stands as canon with the LotRs. Also, all mistakes made in the Sil have been corrected in the HoMe series, and none of the points argued in this thread regarding Finrod was among those mistakes.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-01-2003, 11:07 PM   #133
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i cant make up my mind about my favorite, but a few are finrod, luthien, and legolas
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Old 02-02-2003, 04:00 PM   #134
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Quote:
Maedhros, after our little chat off the board, I have decided to overlook everthing you have said about Finrod.

Quote:
Also, I believe that the Sil. is considered canon eventhough it is flawed and was published posthumously. BoLTs is not canon. The Sil is still considered to be the newer mythology that stands as canon with the LotRs. Also, all mistakes made in the Sil have been corrected in the HoMe series, and none of the points argued in this thread regarding Finrod was among those mistakes.
Unfortunately the Published Silmarillion or Home Series can't be considered canon. Not all mistakes made in the Published Silmarillion have been corrected, some have been not actually made.
For example:
In the exile of the Ñoldor, Galadriel was one of the princes of the Ñoldor to stand tall that day, but if you read Unfinished Tales and the Letters of JRRT, you would see that the conception that Galadriel took part in the Kinslaying was to be taken out of the story and it would have had to been rewritten again. And his revision of The Silmarillion, actually ends with the Wanderings of Húrin in The War of the Jewels, which is incomplete also. JRRT, never went and finished his Fall of Gondolin, therefore, the Fall of Gondolin, found in The Book of Lost Tales II is his more complete and last account of how Gondolin was destroyed. Granted that there are certain elements that don't belong with the later Mythology ex: Mechanical Dragons, hundreds of Balrogs, etc, but it is an account which was not revised and it's still the last version.
From The Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin
Quote:
But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp. Then leapt Ecthelion lord of the Fountain, fairest of the Noldoli, full at Gothmog even as he raised his whip, and his helm that had a spike upon it he drave into that evil breast, and he twined his legs about his foeman's thighs; and the Balrog yelled and fell forward; but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.
There is no part in the Legendarium that contradicts that Echtelion is not the fairest of the Ñoldor.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 02-02-2003, 04:34 PM   #135
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There is no part in the Legendarium that contradicts that Echtelion is not the fairest of the Ñoldor.
(defending SGH here )
No, but SGH didn't say fairest of the Noldor either. She said fairest of the princes of the Noldor, and the fairest of the House of Finwë...
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Old 02-02-2003, 05:01 PM   #136
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my favorite is celeborn
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well your on fire now. go team fencing!!!!

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Old 02-02-2003, 11:05 PM   #137
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No, but SGH didn't say fairest of the Noldor either. She said fairest of the princes of the Noldor, and the fairest of the House of Finwë...
I know.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:02 AM   #138
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Quote:
He didn't do deeds of surpassing valour though
Starving, tortured, and naked( maybe) didn't he break the chains that bound him and killed a werewolf with is bare hands to defend his friend.

That sound valourous to me.
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About Eowyn,
Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means?

She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight.

'Dern Helm"

Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

Last edited by afro-elf : 02-03-2003 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:07 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by afro-elf
Starving, tortured, and naked( maybe) didn't he break the chains that bound him and killed a werewolf with is bare hands to defend his friend.

That sound valourous to me.
Oh afro-elf, thank you! I knew I could count on you.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 02-03-2003, 12:12 AM   #140
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That sound valourous to me.
Valoruous yes, surpassing valour? Not by the author.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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