The decline of entmoot - Page 7

samwiselvr2008 · 09-06-2002, 09:46 PM

Well, I know that we need to get back on topic more here, if we are considerd going off to much (not sher if we are, or not) but can they translate a spoken word to paper?

Never mind, someone PMed me the answer, so that this wouldn't go any farther off topic, but if you have any further info. then please PM me about it, I'll be happy to learn more on this subject, thanks!

markedel · 09-06-2002, 11:13 PM

I think there's an ebb and flow of discussion. The problem really is that the average moot member simply can't do "proper" (acedemic) literary criticism, and tto even approach that level one has to read a lot more then LOTR the Hobbit and the Silmarillion. I for one don't have the time or money.

Maybe later...

Laurelyn · 12-30-2002, 02:48 PM

Yes, later.
After the realease of TTT; now what? We all know we're going to get another influx of newbies, who are spurred by the movie's success to look on the web. I was one last year. And I remember just how clueless I was, too.

But really; we're going to get lots of people who rely on movieverse LOTR for discussion. We know some of them will stay. Someof the people we get won't be the stereotypical "newbie" but some will.
It's later, now. Now what?

samwiselvr2008 · 12-30-2002, 03:12 PM

Hopefully they'll leave if they aren't true to Tolkien. If not, then we'll stay true and hope that this board will stay good. They'll always be new good fans, and bad fans!

Elenka · 12-30-2002, 03:23 PM

I don't think the Moot is declining, just changing. Change is inevitable, so get used to it. After all, I was once an ignorant newbie myself, and I don't think I'm one anymore! I think that after every movie, we'll get a huge amount of new members. Then, when their initial excitement dies down, they'll leave and only those true to Tolkien will remain.

Iron McFist · 12-30-2002, 03:48 PM

While I've only been here a few days, on other BBS's that I've been on have certainly suffered the curse of the movie-only watchers coming in and just rambling on about their male hunks, but I don't think that's what I've seen here. So.. yay.
(Yeah, I've only been here a day or two and it seems to coincide with the movie coming out, but I have read Tolkien and I'm keeping up with my tradition of re-reading it once a year at least - third year.)

Elf Girl · 12-30-2002, 04:32 PM

Hmm. This is a good topic. In my opinion, yes, this board has suffered, but the LotR and ME moderators are doing a good jobs keeping the forums uncontamminated. The people who have only watched the movie tend to stay in the movies forum, or leave the site altogether.

samwiselvr2008 · 12-30-2002, 05:50 PM

I agree. I think that it is pritty clear that we only want the book fans here, exspecailly since we have a section only for movie, and other sections for the books, the Sil., The Hobbit, ME, and a few others like this one and non related LOTR stuff like that. I new from the first day that this site was one with true fans, not "I saw the movie, and it was awsome, but after seeing the movie, I know the story, so why read the book?" fans, and if I was one of those fans, I probally would have felt regected and left. It is easy to tell the diffrense between this sight and other Tolkien message bords, and I hope that it stays that way! You see how many people have come and left, and I do not know the reason why every person left, and you don't eather, but it is a geuss of mine that at least 50% of the people that left felt regected because they didn't want to, warn't in the middle of, and had never read the seriese, or because they were only here in the first place because Orlando Bloom, Viggo Mortanson, or Elijah Wood (or anyone else that people think are cute, these are just the most commen ones that you here about), played in the movie. I think that we have a way of "politly telling them" that they are not wanted. I mean, this thread is pointed to no one person, but it tells every unwanted "movie" person off.

Coney · 12-30-2002, 07:13 PM

I'm only here for the beer

Seriously tho'........the movie forum now has more threads/posts than the LotR book forum

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, the movies are straight forward, linear and you only need a cursory knowledge of LotR to understand them, henceforth making the discussion of PJ's LotR very easy.

As stated many times earlier in this thread the "big" book discussions were done and dusted long ago. How many members actually remember the Who/What is Tom Bombadil.........Do Balrogs have wings (etc) threads?......No wonder so many Newbies disapear after just 1 or 2 posts when all they hear is "it's been done before"......."not that old question again, are you that ignorant?"......or even better in my experience as a newbie "I can't be bothered to answer your question, look in the encyclopedia of Arda, here is the link".

I'd like to see a lot of the old questions raised and discussed again........maybe even with the "oldbies" leaving the "newbies" to discuss the topics themselves (just because a thread has been done before doesn't mean that you need to participate in it again)....there seems to be a lot folks on the 'moot reading LotR, et al, for the 1st time........and we all read ch. In the House of Tom Bombadil and asked "what/who is he really?" once upon a time.

Is the Entmoot declining......IMO no. It is evolving into a BB where members will chat about the lowest common-denominator whilst causing the least friction

Really, it is up to the 'mooters themselves to keep the forums from degrading.......after-all we are the ones doing the posting

(yes, yes, I know that in a certain light this looks like a bit of a flame.......take it as you will.......but for the luvva ya gods....we need to stop the "I love Orly brigade somehow

j/k)

Laurelyn · 12-30-2002, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elenka
I don't think the Moot is declining, just changing. Change is inevitable, so get used to it. After all, I was once an ignorant newbie myself, and I don't think I'm one anymore! I think that after every movie, we'll get a huge amount of new members. Then, when their initial excitement dies down, they'll leave and only those true to Tolkien will remain.

Yes, a lot of them will leave. And yes,a lot of them will stay. That, 'lenka dear, is how I came to the Moot. I stayed. BUt it was different even then.
You say changing, and somebody else said evolving way back when. And yet; a change for the worse is called a decline, right?
I go back and forth between thinking it's a change for the better and a change for the worse. Right now I'm mourning for the Moot I knew a year ago. Almost a year ago, anyways.
And yes I think I liked it a little better then.
Or did I?
No offense intended to those of you who feel targeted by that statement. Nobody's targeted. The people are different and that's not the trouble. You guys here -- I mean, oh, how do I say what I mean? -- rock. It's an ill wind that doesn't blow some good. (Anybody remember the way Sam's gaffer worded that?)
I love the Moot for what it is now, and yet . . .it's so very different. Does anybody understand?

Coney: Down with the "I love Orly!" brigade! And I'm sorry to you "I love Orly!"-ers. Even if it is a bit late for that, eh?

Elf Girl · 12-30-2002, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
Seriously tho'........the movie forum now has more threads/posts than the LotR book forum

But that's because we have differant forums for The Hobbit and LotR, and another one for the Sil. Probably if there was one FotR movie forum and one TTT movie forum, neither would have as many posts as the LotR books forum.

Laurelyn · 12-30-2002, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
But that's because we have differant forums for The Hobbit and LotR, and another one for the Sil. Probably if there was one FotR movie forum and one TTT movie forum, neither would have as many posts as the LotR books forum.

Good Point.

Firekitten2006 · 12-31-2002, 01:18 AM

Just got in on this page but hey what the heck!

I am a "newbie" of sorts I guess. I read the books before I saw the movies, and I do get annoyed by the changes PJ made. But I really dont enjoy "discussing" what JRRT meant when he said this or said that in the books. I think it just gets somewhat petty. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that most books are not meant to be picked apart, and analyzed. There's supposed to be a bit of mystery, and you are supposed to try and figure out the book yourself. Like Tom Bombadil. That is just a mystery that we will never know the meaning of. I think its best that way, and not to leave him lying there after we have picked ever single possibilty of what/who he is.

I really enjoy talking to people. But I really dont like talking about how PJ got this wrong, or how I think this is what JRRT meant by this...it just gets bland.

You just have to expect that there will be changes on a board like this. There are new people coming all the time, and they all have had different experiences, and views on things. So they will say different things, and have different opinions.

But I do like picking apart my views

and other peoples views as well

Coney · 12-31-2002, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
But that's because we have differant forums for The Hobbit and LotR, and another one for the Sil. Probably if there was one FotR movie forum and one TTT movie forum, neither would have as many posts as the LotR books forum.

True, but we still have PJ's RotK to come.

It'll be very interesting to see how the 'moot shapes itself after all three films have been released.

If there were FotR and TTT stand-alone book forums then their would certainly be more posts in the FotR and TTT movie forums

Oh well, I guess it all depends what you (I) expect from this BB, personally I don't particularly enjoy discussing movies so I think the board is declining.

As I said before, we make the posts, so we shape the 'moot

Elf Girl · 12-31-2002, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
If there were FotR and TTT stand-alone book forums then their would certainly be more posts in the FotR and TTT movie forums

But LotR stands together as a single work, and each of the movies are more stand-alone than each volume.

markedel · 12-31-2002, 11:12 AM

I always believed the beauty of the forum is that young movie fans and old book fans can all get together under one friendly roof. It's great that there can be serious discussion and more frivilous discussion.

Now I disagree about the idea that LOTR is somehow untouchable. It's Literature, and literature is meant to be analyzed.

Artanis · 12-31-2002, 11:31 AM

I guess this thread had to be brought up again at this time

I think Elenka is right, movie-only newbies will stay for a while and then disappear, and the vast majority of them will stick to the LotR movies forum while they're here. But still many of the threads and posts to be found in the movies forum are articulate and intelligent, also posts from newbies.

I also agree with Coney, I would like old topics like Bombadil and Balrogs to be discussed anew, but I respect the decision of the mods. And what's this about not wanting to answer questions? When someone asks a question, they show some interest, no? They should be encouraged. If they're interested, this site is a great place to be educated. I have been.

Arathorn · 12-31-2002, 11:46 AM

The owners of entmoot define the vision of entmoot. They, therefore, set the parameters by which entmoot is judged.

But, I guess, our opinions are nice to hear.

Elenka · 12-31-2002, 01:42 PM

Also: If you want to avoid the majority of the newbies...I would suggest just not going as much to the movie forum. In my opinion, that's where most newbies will go, because that's likely all they'll know about. The ones who've actually read the books are more likely to explore and will probably be the folks who stay! And if newbies venture into the General Message board...Well, you don't exactly need good knowledge of Tolkien's works to survive out here

samwiselvr2008 · 12-31-2002, 02:14 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coney
[B]Seriously tho'........the movie forum now has more threads/posts than the LotR book forum

[QUOTE]

Not all things in the movie forum only have to do with the movie, some are about how the movie relates to the book, but since all of the hardcover fans would rather not see there book forum "trashed", they are pute in the movie forum! Like one thread that I started was about a glimps from The Two Towers that I saw before it was in the theaters. I was asking if that one part had ever happend in the book, because I couldn't remember it happening, it could have been in a totally diffrent forum (if there was one) compering the movie to the book. And if that was a forum, then I bet that the movie forum would have alot less posts/threads then it dose now. My point is, is that the movie forum has alot of things that has to do with the book in it, so in a sence, it may be that if the "book compared to the movie" stuff was moved to the book forum, or got its own, then the book stuff would be overdoing the movie!

Anyone understand what I'm saying?

09-06-2002, 09:46 PM	#121
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	Well, I know that we need to get back on topic more here, if we are considerd going off to much (not sher if we are, or not) but can they translate a spoken word to paper? Never mind, someone PMed me the answer, so that this wouldn't go any farther off topic, but if you have any further info. then please PM me about it, I'll be happy to learn more on this subject, thanks! __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES! Last edited by samwiselvr2008 : 09-06-2002 at 09:55 PM.

09-06-2002, 11:13 PM	#122
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I think there's an ebb and flow of discussion. The problem really is that the average moot member simply can't do "proper" (acedemic) literary criticism, and tto even approach that level one has to read a lot more then LOTR the Hobbit and the Silmarillion. I for one don't have the time or money. Maybe later... __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

12-30-2002, 02:48 PM	#123
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Yes, later. After the realease of TTT; now what? We all know we're going to get another influx of newbies, who are spurred by the movie's success to look on the web. I was one last year. And I remember just how clueless I was, too. But really; we're going to get lots of people who rely on movieverse LOTR for discussion. We know some of them will stay. Someof the people we get won't be the stereotypical "newbie" but some will. It's later, now. Now what? __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

12-30-2002, 03:12 PM	#124
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	Hopefully they'll leave if they aren't true to Tolkien. If not, then we'll stay true and hope that this board will stay good. They'll always be new good fans, and bad fans! __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

12-30-2002, 03:23 PM	#125
Elenka The Negative Soul of Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Middle Distance Posts: 651	I don't think the Moot is declining, just changing. Change is inevitable, so get used to it. After all, I was once an ignorant newbie myself, and I don't think I'm one anymore! I think that after every movie, we'll get a huge amount of new members. Then, when their initial excitement dies down, they'll leave and only those true to Tolkien will remain. __________________ W00T for the M00T!! War doesn't determine who is right - war determines who is left.

12-30-2002, 03:48 PM	#126
Iron McFist Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 37	While I've only been here a few days, on other BBS's that I've been on have certainly suffered the curse of the movie-only watchers coming in and just rambling on about their male hunks, but I don't think that's what I've seen here. So.. yay. (Yeah, I've only been here a day or two and it seems to coincide with the movie coming out, but I have read Tolkien and I'm keeping up with my tradition of re-reading it once a year at least - third year.) __________________ "I find it pretty lame to have one of your own quotes as your signature" - Iron McFist

12-30-2002, 04:32 PM	#127
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Hmm. This is a good topic. In my opinion, yes, this board has suffered, but the LotR and ME moderators are doing a good jobs keeping the forums uncontamminated. The people who have only watched the movie tend to stay in the movies forum, or leave the site altogether. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

12-30-2002, 05:50 PM	#128
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	I agree. I think that it is pritty clear that we only want the book fans here, exspecailly since we have a section only for movie, and other sections for the books, the Sil., The Hobbit, ME, and a few others like this one and non related LOTR stuff like that. I new from the first day that this site was one with true fans, not "I saw the movie, and it was awsome, but after seeing the movie, I know the story, so why read the book?" fans, and if I was one of those fans, I probally would have felt regected and left. It is easy to tell the diffrense between this sight and other Tolkien message bords, and I hope that it stays that way! You see how many people have come and left, and I do not know the reason why every person left, and you don't eather, but it is a geuss of mine that at least 50% of the people that left felt regected because they didn't want to, warn't in the middle of, and had never read the seriese, or because they were only here in the first place because Orlando Bloom, Viggo Mortanson, or Elijah Wood (or anyone else that people think are cute, these are just the most commen ones that you here about), played in the movie. I think that we have a way of "politly telling them" that they are not wanted. I mean, this thread is pointed to no one person, but it tells every unwanted "movie" person off. __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

12-30-2002, 07:13 PM	#129
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	I'm only here for the beer Seriously tho'........the movie forum now has more threads/posts than the LotR book forum It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, the movies are straight forward, linear and you only need a cursory knowledge of LotR to understand them, henceforth making the discussion of PJ's LotR very easy. As stated many times earlier in this thread the "big" book discussions were done and dusted long ago. How many members actually remember the Who/What is Tom Bombadil.........Do Balrogs have wings (etc) threads?......No wonder so many Newbies disapear after just 1 or 2 posts when all they hear is "it's been done before"......."not that old question again, are you that ignorant?"......or even better in my experience as a newbie "I can't be bothered to answer your question, look in the encyclopedia of Arda, here is the link". I'd like to see a lot of the old questions raised and discussed again........maybe even with the "oldbies" leaving the "newbies" to discuss the topics themselves (just because a thread has been done before doesn't mean that you need to participate in it again)....there seems to be a lot folks on the 'moot reading LotR, et al, for the 1st time........and we all read ch. In the House of Tom Bombadil and asked "what/who is he really?" once upon a time. Is the Entmoot declining......IMO no. It is evolving into a BB where members will chat about the lowest common-denominator whilst causing the least friction Really, it is up to the 'mooters themselves to keep the forums from degrading.......after-all we are the ones doing the posting (yes, yes, I know that in a certain light this looks like a bit of a flame.......take it as you will.......but for the luvva ya gods....we need to stop the "I love Orly brigade somehow j/k) __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

12-31-2002, 01:18 AM	#133
Firekitten2006 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the US of A! But I wish i was in austraila, never been, just think it would be a fun place to live :) Posts: 372	Just got in on this page but hey what the heck! I am a "newbie" of sorts I guess. I read the books before I saw the movies, and I do get annoyed by the changes PJ made. But I really dont enjoy "discussing" what JRRT meant when he said this or said that in the books. I think it just gets somewhat petty. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that most books are not meant to be picked apart, and analyzed. There's supposed to be a bit of mystery, and you are supposed to try and figure out the book yourself. Like Tom Bombadil. That is just a mystery that we will never know the meaning of. I think its best that way, and not to leave him lying there after we have picked ever single possibilty of what/who he is. I really enjoy talking to people. But I really dont like talking about how PJ got this wrong, or how I think this is what JRRT meant by this...it just gets bland. You just have to expect that there will be changes on a board like this. There are new people coming all the time, and they all have had different experiences, and views on things. So they will say different things, and have different opinions. But I do like picking apart my views and other peoples views as well __________________ I'm Baaaack!!

12-31-2002, 11:12 AM	#136
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I always believed the beauty of the forum is that young movie fans and old book fans can all get together under one friendly roof. It's great that there can be serious discussion and more frivilous discussion. Now I disagree about the idea that LOTR is somehow untouchable. It's Literature, and literature is meant to be analyzed. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

12-31-2002, 11:31 AM	#137
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I guess this thread had to be brought up again at this time I think Elenka is right, movie-only newbies will stay for a while and then disappear, and the vast majority of them will stick to the LotR movies forum while they're here. But still many of the threads and posts to be found in the movies forum are articulate and intelligent, also posts from newbies. I also agree with Coney, I would like old topics like Bombadil and Balrogs to be discussed anew, but I respect the decision of the mods. And what's this about not wanting to answer questions? When someone asks a question, they show some interest, no? They should be encouraged. If they're interested, this site is a great place to be educated. I have been. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

12-31-2002, 11:46 AM	#138
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	The owners of entmoot define the vision of entmoot. They, therefore, set the parameters by which entmoot is judged. But, I guess, our opinions are nice to hear. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

12-31-2002, 01:42 PM	#139
Elenka The Negative Soul of Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Middle Distance Posts: 651	Also: If you want to avoid the majority of the newbies...I would suggest just not going as much to the movie forum. In my opinion, that's where most newbies will go, because that's likely all they'll know about. The ones who've actually read the books are more likely to explore and will probably be the folks who stay! And if newbies venture into the General Message board...Well, you don't exactly need good knowledge of Tolkien's works to survive out here __________________ W00T for the M00T!! War doesn't determine who is right - war determines who is left.

12-31-2002, 02:14 PM	#140
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coney [B]Seriously tho'........the movie forum now has more threads/posts than the LotR book forum [QUOTE] Not all things in the movie forum only have to do with the movie, some are about how the movie relates to the book, but since all of the hardcover fans would rather not see there book forum "trashed", they are pute in the movie forum! Like one thread that I started was about a glimps from The Two Towers that I saw before it was in the theaters. I was asking if that one part had ever happend in the book, because I couldn't remember it happening, it could have been in a totally diffrent forum (if there was one) compering the movie to the book. And if that was a forum, then I bet that the movie forum would have alot less posts/threads then it dose now. My point is, is that the movie forum has alot of things that has to do with the book in it, so in a sence, it may be that if the "book compared to the movie" stuff was moved to the book forum, or got its own, then the book stuff would be overdoing the movie! Anyone understand what I'm saying? __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

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