Banned Books

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Sure it is. I'd be very keen on, say, limiting knowledge of my whereabouts in regards to someone who threatened my life.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Hey, if a kid with anger problems is reading Neizsche, then more power to him I say. Banning his access to Neizsche's books ins't going to help him with his problems. Hopefully he has someone to talk to that can give him some context for the literature.

IMO, The responsibility of adults is not to prohibit youth's access to knowledge, but to provide context and wisdom for that knowledge.

Limiting knowledge is never a good idea. What can I say. I'm a scientist.

I never said that Nietzsche should be banned, only the possibility of that young man's whirly direction if he reads Nietchzsche before really knowing what life has to offer beyond the teenage years. It doesn't have to be Nietchzse either, I only picked him because of his noticeably gray view of life... (judging from the few essays I've read, mostly one on Wagner )

Nurv, parents are NOT The Big Bad Government; they're parents. "Limiting knowledge"? You've put it succinctly when you say that it is the responsiblity of parents to provide context etc...but "limiting knowledge"? First of all, I already can't stand that term, it makes no sense. There is a natural limit to what any one person can know in a lifetime. But I know that's not what you meant...

In my view, when a parent decides to not let her daughter read, say...Judy Blume, she is wanting to keep her from thinking like Judy Blume, because a parent usually realizes more than an adolescent, that books are very influential. I wouldn't call prohibiting Judy Blume's books "limiting knowledge", because as you well know, Judy Blume isn't exactly the world's expert on puberty issues. I would like to say that that parents intends to talk with her daughter seperately about puberty, or perhaps give her a book that she finds more confidable. Reading about puberty in Judy Blume's context is not the most important thing for a young person.


Let's say that all the knowledge a person needs to know in a lifetime is sitting behind a redlight, waiting to go to the person on the other end. I say that there is an appropriate time for each indivual[s] piece[s] of knowledge to be greenlighted. (And lets pretend that books etc, are not a natural part of the knowledge, though they are not a bad part).

Note: If schools geniunely want to help young people understand puberty etc...I dont see wht they have to do it by assigning un-academic books. A facts-laden book would do good, more so than an sexual idealogy-with-facts book such as Judy Blume's.

[Butterbeer]

The wise speak only of what they know grima wormtongue ...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

The wise speak only of what they know grima wormtongue ...

Is that for me?

[Nurvingiel]

What I meant by 'limiting knowledge' is the government banning books. I wasn't targeting a specific book with that statement.

If a parent feels it's innapropriate for their child to read a certain book, it is entirely up to them to either not provide the book to them or, if their child already has a copy of the book or has found it at the library (or etc.), to explain to them why they don't think they should read it.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

What I meant by 'limiting knowledge' is the government banning books. I wasn't targeting a specific book with that statement.

If a parent feels it's innapropriate for their child to read a certain book, it is entirely up to them to either not provide the book to them or, if their child already has a copy of the book or has found it at the library (or etc.), to explain to them why they don't think they should read it.

And take it one step further: if Mom finds daughter with the Judy Blume book (which she got from the school library, in all likelyhood) what does she do besides lecture or explain?
"Don't read that honey, it is confrontational to my sensibilities."
"Gee, sorry mom, I didn't know it would hurt you this much." *skippity hop, skippity hop*

Yeah right. The most commonly used method is trying to convince the school board through a rich and diverse array of arsenal, that they had better pull that book...and the reason it never works is because some well-meaning person comes along and says "You can't ban that book! thats censorship!" Censorship is part of parenting, and a crucial part, IMO.

Just recently Bill Cosby lectured parents that they are not doing enough parenting, that they don't watch their kids' activities, and thus do not help in the reduction of young people's violence or sexual activity.

[Valaru]

I am against the banning of books, with that said it is up to the parent, not the library to decide what books the child should read, to a certain age, after that it is the childs choice, to explore new boundries and thoughts within an age appropriate setting of course, I don't mean 12 year olds reading Anton LaVey or anthing, but maybe some new and diffrent ideas to help their minds grow.

[Alcuin]

The Bible. Bibles are completely banned in most public schools in the United States; they have been banned and removed by almost all US hotel and motel chains, where twenty years ago they were in every room; and they are now being quietly removed from public libraries. (Heh! I guess “open-minded” librarians are only opposed to banning certain books – some are too dangerous to be left on the shelves!)

And I can’t ever recall having been in an English hotel room and finding a Bible.

[Valaru]

I have never heard of a school banning the bible from the library, I know they dont teach it. And why should a hotel room have a bible? If the person is the type to want to read a bible, they usually have one with them. If a hotel is going to have a bible in every room they should also have a Kuran, Torah, * basically books from all the major religions.

[brownjenkins]

It's perfectly acceptable to have bibles in public schools, and to teach about religion.

Read this speech from former Education Secretary Riley (a Clinton appointee, no less)

http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/04-1995/prayer.html

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

The Bible. Bibles are completely banned in most public schools in the United States; they have been banned and removed by almost all US hotel and motel chains, where twenty years ago they were in every room; and they are now being quietly removed from public libraries. (Heh! I guess “open-minded” librarians are only opposed to banning certain books – some are too dangerous to be left on the shelves!)

And I can’t ever recall having been in an English hotel room and finding a Bible.

Lots of British hotels have bibles in the room, I have found.

And why should a hotel room have a bible?

In a country that has through time been predominantly Christian, why should it not? I don't know where the tradition came from but bibles have been left in hotel rooms for years. No one is forcing anyone to read it. You are right though that the kind of people who would read it would generally carry their own.

I won't comment on other religious books being there as I'll just go off topic.

It's perfectly acceptable to have bibles in public schools, and to teach about religion.

I agree. It's acceptable to teach about religions in schools. The bible, nor any other religion's teachings shouldn't be denied to children, otherwise how can they choose if they want to be a part of it? I'm not religious, but I would not have liked to have been denied what I learned about different ones.

[hectorberlioz]

Well, I have seen bibles in public libraries...so it hasn't reached this far south yet, I guess. I can definitely see it being just another quick-vote-for-me issue in a more liberal state, however...
Kinda like Chirac with the headscarves banning...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Valaru

I have never heard of a school banning the bible from the library, I know they dont teach it. And why should a hotel room have a bible? If the person is the type to want to read a bible, they usually have one with them. If a hotel is going to have a bible in every room they should also have a Kuran, Torah, * basically books from all the major religions.

Well, usually Hotels and Motels are privately owned chains/enterprises...who's to tell them what not to put in their rooms?
I suppose you have a point; people who read it will bring it themselves, in most cases. But the idea behind it is to just scare the heck out of hardcore atheists... ...you never know who'll pick it up, they figured...


Hmm....I suppose if a hotel line was owned by a Muslim, he could have Korans in every room...but I doubt that. I think Muslims would find it sacriligious to leave a Koran in the rooms of non-muslims...

Torah? Most Jewish business owners are liberal Jews, who probably don't find it necessary to put sacred texts in the rooms...

[Valaru]

I don't know where the tradition came from but bibles have been left in hotel rooms for years.

The Gideons are the ones who supply the bibles to hotels.

Torah? Most Jewish business owners are liberal Jews, who probably don't find it necessary to put sacred texts in the rooms...

The amount of business owners who are liberal is in proportion to the amount of Jews who are liberal, just as many are orthodox, or ultra orthodox. And none would leave a torah in a room, as Judism is a non-evangelical religion.

Back to the point though, banning books, I think every library should have a bible, whether the person reading it takes it as sacred text or a work of fiction, just like every library should have a copy of the koran, and the books of the torah not included in the old testament of the christian bible, as well they should all have Tom Sawyer, Catcher in the Rye and 1984, all those books contain hate, swearing, and radical ideas, but to keep them from the general public will do more harm than good.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Valaru

The amount of business owners who are liberal is in proportion to the amount of Jews who are liberal, just as many are orthodox, or ultra orthodox. And none would leave a torah in a room, as Judism is a non-evangelical religion.

Excellently put.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Valaru

The Gideons are the ones who supply the bibles to hotels.




The amount of business owners who are liberal is in proportion to the amount of Jews who are liberal, just as many are orthodox, or ultra orthodox. And none would leave a torah in a room, as Judism is a non-evangelical religion.

True, Judaism is not an religion of proselytising, but not every Jew would abide by that, necessarily. Zealous people often are eager to share their faith, regardless of what their faith says about being shared. Though it is definitely true that Judaism is not a religion aimed at converting people.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

True, Judaism is not an religion of proselytising, but not every Jew would abide by that, necessarily. Zealous people often are eager to share their faith, regardless of what their faith says about being shared. Though it is definitely true that Judaism is not a religion aimed at converting people.

Thats why some people strongly dislike Christians...because we are "spread the faith" types...we don't exactly point guns to do it either...that means using words, which often makes people red in the face from embarrassment/rage.

just my two cents...

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Thats why some people strongly dislike Christians...because we are "spread the faith" types...we don't exactly point guns to do it either...that means using words, which often makes people red in the face from embarrassment/rage.

just my two cents...

I'd actually say that a vast majority of christians are not the "spread the faith" type. It's just that the ones who are are real noisy.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

That's because we have become weak. As Chesterton says, "The problem with Christians these days is that not enough of them are being killed". Also, events in the Catholic Church have more or less destroyed any concerted missionary effort from the largest Christian body.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

That's because we have become weak.

Thank god for that!

The weaker religion becomes, the stronger humanity becomes.