The Instrumentalists Thread

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You could add your name in Tengwar underneath.

..... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It should not change the sound of the harp, or at least not in a notable way. They encourage you to paint the soundboxes of the harps, and I even saw a video where a guy just wrapped the soundbox in wrapping paper.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Okay, I'm putting this here because this is about instrumental/vocal balance...

I tried some different settings, and this is the one that came out the best. The microphone is about 5 feet behind my back (it's not next to the laptop camera).

The top notes (aside from being way out of tune...) do overwhelm, but I think overall this is the best balance I'm going to get with one microphone. However the piano sounds muffled, and I'm not thrilled with the lack of clarity in the voice either. I think the only way to fix that would be to record them separately, or with two microphones at once.

I think a big part of the problem is the microphone is behind my back... I'm literally singing away from it. It needs to be in front of me to pick up all of the vocal colors/subtleties. But in front of me, the voice definitely overwhelms the piano. On the plus side, now I know what I sound like to people who stand behind me in choir.

I could use some opinions. Any thoughts, guys? Is the balance between the piano and the voice okay?

http://youtu.be/m6q8PiDu9Us

P.S. I do apologize for how rough it is. I haven't sung or played this piece in forever, but it was the first thing I saw when I sat down to record.

You have a very nice tone

To me, it seemed like the piano had a little too much emphasis - it was like a piano piece with someone deciding last-minute to sing to it (although again, your voice was lovely!) That's just how it came off to a non-professional like me. But as i think about it again, maybe it was because you played the piano louder between verses, so it was a bit of a jar when the vocal started.

The solution, obviously, is to buy yourself a top-notch recording studio ....

But overall, for a YouTube, it was nice. I mean, I'm an engineer and I'm picky.

[Tessar]

Thank you for the feedback! I am surprised about the piano. So you think it needs more voice? Pulling back the piano is not too hard... I can play quite softly on that particular piano.

[Rían]

I think it needs a bit more voice ... but I'm no expert ... if the music from the piano comes from the soundboard, could you put the mike in front of you for your voice, but shield it from the bottom/back to dampen the soundboard?

And now back to more fun harp stuff -

TESSAR - go to this link on Sylvia Woods' page and click on "Gypsy Mirage" to hear the song I'm working back up to speed ... it's really a pretty cool song. It goes between 5/8 and 6/8, with a 2/4 thrown in for fun in the middle. I really like the beginning part where it's fast, although I can't play it as fast as she can (but I can - or could - play it decently fast, and it's starting to come back to me ) You'll definitely be able to play that within a year, I would think.

Her book "The Harp of Brandiswhiere" is really very nice. I play several pieces out of it - besides Gypsy, I play "In the Forest" and "Dialogue with a Brook" pretty much exactly like she plays it in her clips (except not on a wire harp in the latter).

edit - wow, I'm listening to the clips - I like quite a few of them! I think I'll start "The Harper's Vision" next. I also used to play "The Legend", which has some cool bits in the middle, but for some reason, I didn't like something in it and quit.

edit again - eh, don't really like the rest so much - and - Sylvia did some buzzing in "Brand.'s Return"!

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I think it needs a bit more voice ... but I'm no expert ... if the music from the piano comes from the soundboard, could you put the mike in front of you for your voice, but shield it from the bottom/back to dampen the soundboard?

It's hard to say. The microphone is so sensitive.... but that is definitely worth a try... although I think I will have to have some physical padding to literally "dampen" the sound. Thanks for the idea!!

TESSAR - go to this link on Sylvia Woods' page and click on "Gypsy Mirage" to hear the song I'm working back up to speed ... it's really a pretty cool song. It goes between 5/8 and 6/8, with a 2/4 thrown in for fun in the middle. I really like the beginning part where it's fast, although I can't play it as fast as she can (but I can - or could - play it decently fast, and it's starting to come back to me ) You'll definitely be able to play that within a year, I would think.

I was listening to that on her site the other day. I was thinking, "When I've had some lessons and get a real harp with levers, I'm going to learn that set." I just love it.

Can I give you a tip for learning to play faster? You may already know it and do it. This has always worked for me (when I do it ) and if I am disciplined in doing it I can get things up to and beyond speed very quickly.

Get your metronome out, and set it to a pace that is way too slow for your skill level. Be patient and play the piece through at least twice at the tempo, and really feel the beats and subdivisions in your body/mind.

Then set it just a bit faster, and over a few playings get it to a point where it's at a comfortable (but not fast) tempo. Leave it alone for the rest of the day, and when you come back the next day start at that tempo (it will become your "warmup tempo" to help you maintain beat accuracy), and each time you play it move the metronome up one click till you start making mistakes.

The next day start at the fastest tempo you had before you started making mistakes, and try to move it up at least one click faster.

In a week or two, you will be floored by how fast (and accurately) you can play the piece.

The danger is if you keep trying to push yourself to play it through that tempo where you started making mistakes. That's deadly and can ruin your speed on the piece because you'll try so hard that you'll start practicing in mistakes.

edit again - eh, don't really like the rest so much - and - Sylvia did some buzzing in "Brand.'s Return"!

That's one thing I don't understand yet. Everyone talks about buzzing like it's the devil, but I think in some cases it adds character to the piece... although I agree when it's just due to sloppy playing it sounds pretty rough.

[Rían]

Buzzing is kind of like that squeek you hear from guitarists, which I think adds character to the piece (I know what you mean), but buzzing, for me, just ... doesn't. To me, it's kind of like if a singer made a loud, annoying burp in the middle of a song If it's very light, and very infrequent, maybe - but buzzing has this awful tendency to be really, really loud.

Some pieces are really prone to it - there's this piece that I really, really like, "Lark on the Strand" / "Trip to Sligo", but it is a real buzzer (even my former teacher, who was a rockin' harp player, said how hard it is to not buzz on this piece - she was in an intermediate harping competition in Ireland and played that piece, and THEY even said it was hard to not buzz it! ). I keep contemplating throwing it out, but I like it so much ... The thing is that the best way to not buzz is to throw out placing in the left hand, but then that makes you make mistakes. Maybe I'll just try to re-arrange the base when I get some time, but it's such a nice baseline ... problems, problems ...

I like your metronome suggestion - I had done that before, years ago, with piano, but I had completely forgotten that. I wonder if my metronome is around somewhere? That's probably also a good way to force yourself to play thru mistakes, I would guess. IIRC, those little buggers are pricey, but I'll google around. Thanks for the tips, I really appreciate them!

Re Sylvia Woods - which other of the pieces do you like in that set? I definitely recommend "Dialogue with a Brook" - it's a cheap thrill because I love LOVE how it sounds, and once you get the right hand down by tons of repetition so you don't have to think about it, it's really quite easy to add the melody in the left. I like the little part in the middle, too - you play it totally - eh, forgot the term, it's early here - you know, just your own tempo, very much throw out the metronome - you know what I mean. "In the Forest" is quite nice - that's a good one to start with (don't start with the first one, it's a lot harder). Each movement is very nice, and very different, but still coherent.

I like to riff off her pieces and add my own embellishments - I have a lovely ending chord for "Dialogue with a Brook" (kind of a goofy name, but whatever) that I came up with and added on, and I have some lovely sneaky tips for getting your right hand back up high quickly after the middle section. The way she wrote it, you play something down low, then have to quickly place up high and start with the fast right hand. I ended up missing a lot, so I added in these two harmonics on the way up, making it sound really nice and making it easy to then just jump a little higher to start with the fast right hand again. I'll give you my changes if you would like when you get that piece going

I love adding little embellishments and grace notes onto Celtic pieces - they just beg for it, and it really sounds lovely in the harp. That's one thing that I love about Grainne Hambly - she has lots of nice embellishments.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You could add your name in Tengwar underneath. But won't the drawing influence the integrity of the harp if it's made of cardboard?

I'm afraid to do anything to the soundbox, but I did annotate some of my plastic sharping levers with Tengwar I throw the E lever a lot, so I put the little E mark on all my E levers. I also put some Tengwar marks on the top of the harp, right next to the string pegs on the side where I tune, to help myself find the right string quickly if I need to pop on the tuning peg and adjust a string. The silver sharpies work nicely for this - they show up nicely on the wood, and silver is so elvish!

We must work in our Tolkien, mustn't we?

[Rían]

Here's Trip to Sligo - she's playing the same version I have - it's from Sylvia's "Teach Yourself ..." book - but I add on embellishments, add chords, and vary the tempo a bit. That's another nice thing about harp - you can totally take an easy piece and make it a lot prettier.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

IIRC, those little buggers are pricey, but I'll google around.

If you have a smart phone (like an android or blackberry or iphone or something) you can usually download a metronome for free.

This is a free online one, if you have any way of putting the harp next to the computer (or have a laptop) http://www.metronomeonline.com/

My family has one almost exactly like this: http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-MR500-M...6882384&sr=1-4 We've had it for years and years and I use it all the time.

Now the old fashioned ones that actually swing are expensive. But the electronic ones usually are not very expensive.

If you don't have one, I can't recommend getting one enough. Metronomes are absolutely invaluable musical tools IMO.

[Midge]

Hey, guys! I'm picking up violin. FYI. First "lesson" last night.

[Rían]

That's great! I don't have any experience with violin, but Tessar does. But any instrument is wonderful

How did the lesson go?

[Midge]

It was good. It wasn't really a professional lesson (those are a little out of the budget at the moment), but I learned the notes. I love playing the violin. I can play three whole songs, admittedly haltingly: Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star (of course!), Amazing Grace and Silent Night.

My husband told me that I had to learn a new song every day and practice the ones I already knew. I don't mind. It's good for practice.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

We must work in our Tolkien, mustn't we?

I mentioned this Norwegian composer and musician, Eivind Groven.
One of his grandsons has made his own translation of LotR - one where he uses different Norwegian dialects to characterise the different peoples of M-e. I think Tolkien would have approved

After his translation of LotR was published, he has also translated The Hobbit. I like his translation, it's quite poetical

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Midge

It was good. It wasn't really a professional lesson (those are a little out of the budget at the moment), but I learned the notes. I love playing the violin. I can play three whole songs, admittedly haltingly: Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star (of course!), Amazing Grace and Silent Night.

My husband told me that I had to learn a new song every day and practice the ones I already knew. I don't mind. It's good for practice.

If it helps, have you noticed that the violin strings are like an Australian saying hello? As in, "G'day, mate." Because the strings are GDAE. I always think "G'day."

[Tessar]

Earniel, these are some other harpists that I know have CD's (because they showed up on my Pandora channel ):

Robin Huw Bowen
Aini Minogue
Kim Robertson

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Tessar

If it helps, have you noticed that the violin strings are like an Australian saying hello? As in, "G'day, mate." Because the strings are GDAE. I always think "G'day."

That's funny! I've picked it up really fast, I think... What I'm having to really focus on is dexterity - going from one string to one string (and not accidentally hitting another or squeaking - oh, that noise is awful!) is really making me sound terrible now.

I think my song for yesterday was "Morning has broken". I was with my family and they were making requests for various things, but I liked that one.

I'm actually playing from a hymnal that of course was written for piano. Which makes some of those songs which are written in chords really difficult. I learn with the notes, not so much by ear.

[Rían]

Violin is lovely - I hope you continue to grow and enjoy playing it

I just got a metronome today for $20.00. It's a tuner, too, so that will be handy in case my tuner breaks.


AND I finally signed up my middle son for piano lesson!

[Tessar]

I am reading a very interesting book called the Tao of Singing, and it's got some really interesting concepts. I picked it up out of curiosity (most books that involve that East-Meets-West mysticism stuff are way too New Age and not practical IMO) but found some VERY practical, pedagogical advice in it.

One thing I liked was when he said, "You have to sing from your center of energy to let the [insert blah blah, chi flowing, rivers of energy moving through you, etc.]... because that visualization engages the diaphragm and automatically lowers the larynx." I was like...... hmmm..... tell me more.

But that's voice stuff. The musicality aspect was also INCREDIBLY interesting, and I tried it with the piano today and it made a world of difference in my musicality and the sound I got from the piano.

Remember how I talked about "singing" the melody to myself in my head? The way this guy describes it is turning the phrases into circles. Little phrases have little circles, big/loud phrases have big circles. I found that "singing" the melody as circles gave my piano playing a whole new level of fluidity and brought out dynamic colors that I had never been able to achieve before.

Before I have thought of the melody as being like hills and valleys... it sort of swoops and rises. I think I've visualized it that way because that's how it looks on sheet music. But turning the phrases into circles just connected everything so much better.

Also thinking of turning my hand movements into circles helped too... not in such a way as to change the actual angle or physical movement of my technique, but instead of thinking of jumping my hands/fingers from chord to chord to arpeggio, etc. thinking of each chord leading circularly into the next chord or note made my movements so much more relaxed and smooth. Also the idea of circular playing made my arpeggios and rolled chords SO much better.

You should give it a try, Rian, and see if it does anything for you. I'd be interested to know if it's something that you can relate to.... and if thinking in terms of musical circles helps you at all.

[Rían]

That's interesting, because my favorite ballet dancer in the world, Gelsey Kirkland, said something similar. Ballet is such a strain on the body, and far along into her career she came across a teacher who had her work in circles, and she said it was a revelation - totally different (and good) feeling to her body and improvement to her dancing. Interesting to think how to apply it to playing ... I'll let you know. Glad it worked for you!

Any good news yet, Tessar? Has your baby been delivered yet?

[Tessar]

NO, IT HAS NOT. >.<

I'm going nuts. I want that freakin' harp!!!



I think what I might do is open a new savings account and use it as a "harp fund." It might take a year or so, but I should be able to save up for a pretty decent harp. ... and in a year my dad should have a new job (O_o fingers crossed....) so it would not be too awkward to bring in an expensive instrument.