Was the Ring Evil?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

but the NAzgul are evil because they are not just objects that sudddenly got taken over by a hostile mind. They are evil but the ring is not because it has no mind and never had one. The ring is just a place holder fo r the evil.

So? I'm sure there were innocent men that wore the Rings.

And it's not like you can now seperate the Ring and its power - they're the same... they're the Ring. Like the Nazgul.

[Haradrim]

But are the power and the ring one and the same. Cuz I mean unless the ring was a creature but its not. The power inhabits the rign like a home. If I was evil and I lived in my home is my home evil. No. Same thing for the ring.

[Radagast The Brown]

Isn't it? Will you nto call Mordor evil (Sauron)? Will you not call Angband (Morgoth) evil? Or Nan Dungorthab (Ungoliant)? And Dol Guldur? They're all evil, I think, and they're houses of evil creatures (if you call the Ainur cretaures).
And I find that the Ring is not like home of the power; you can leave the home, but can the power leave the Ring? No.

[Haradrim]

ah some very good points. I feel like I now have forever been defeated in this matter. (sigh) .............

[BeardofPants]

Haradrim, don't make me come over there and kick you in the bollocks.

The ring *is* evil because of that sentience that it displays... it might not be a full evolved chimpanzee, but it certainly is a little more than a gold band. It can change sizes, betray the ring-bearer, and use the bearers to attempt to get back "home" to mordor. Nasty lil' blighter betrayed a few people as well.

[Haradrim]

but the sentient power that in habits the ring made it change sizes not the ring itself. The ring was just a place holder for evil. And though Mordor was evil that was because Sauron had made it evil. IS there any proof that he made the ring evil and not just put a spirit inside of it. If I were to take a bottle and put evil into it. Evil that had sentients and could do things to manipulate the bottle. Would the bottle be evil. No it wouldnt be.

[BeardofPants]

*deja vu*

&%^#!

Ring. Evil. Gold. Evil. Land. Evil. Morgoth. Evil. Sauron. Evil.

[Haradrim]

I agree: Morgoth Evil, Sauron Evil, Mordor Evil, but I dont see how that adds up to ring evil. I mean there is this very thin possibility that the ring isnt evil. If you say that the gold was in fact inhabited by evil like a bottle with evil in it and that the ring was the same way then the ring is not evil but everything else about it is evil.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

If you say that the Ring housed evil and it wasn't evil it self you could say that about Morgoth and Sauron. The evil was in them so they themselves were evil.

[Haradrim]

no becaus they chose to be evil the ring was made a host without its expressed opinion. Therefore ring not evil but Sauron and Morgoth evil. ITs the difference between inanimate objects and animate objects.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

But on numerus occasions Tolkien said that the Ring was trying to get back to Sauron if it wasn't it wouldn't.

[Haradrim]

yes true but wouldnt that be the power inhabiting the ring, like water in a glass, that would try and get back to its master.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

As you are so adamnt that you ar right I will say this as a final thing (for now). All deeds that were done by those who used the Ring were turned to evil which is why Gandalf, Galariel, Aragorn etc. wouldn't take it. Yes the spirit embodying the Ring was the most evil but the ring was marred for it was made in Mordor (a place of evil) and was made by Sauron himself.

[Haradrim]

what, by eru, does its creators alignment and the land it lives in alighnment have to do with anything. Besides the pwoer of the embodying spirt ring that changed the mind of the weilder not the ring.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

what, by eru, does its creators alignment and the land it lives in alighnment have to do with anything. Besides the pwoer of the embodying spirt ring that changed the mind of the weilder not the ring.

Haradrim, you really do need to read Morgoth's Ring. Look at it this way, as in the order in which it all occurred. Morgoth poured his power into the earth. In doing so, many things became tainted with his evil, including many elements, such as, gold, certian land, and usually not water because of the power and presence of Ulmo, but in some cases, even water. If these things were evil before the existance of the Ring, and these are the things that the Ring was made from and where it was made, then the Ring was evil. It was evil in concept, evil at its creation, and evil in its existance. In a way, you could say that it held the evil of both Sauron and Morgoth.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

I agree: Morgoth Evil, Sauron Evil, Mordor Evil, but I dont see how that adds up to ring evil. I mean there is this very thin possibility that the ring isnt evil. If you say that the gold was in fact inhabited by evil like a bottle with evil in it and that the ring was the same way then the ring is not evil but everything else about it is evil.

In the first place, there was no "spirit" housed in the Ring. It was a portion of Sauron's power that retained a certain sentience, but that was placed in the material of the Ring when it was made. It is not like Sauron went to the Mordor Pawnshop, bought a ring, and imbued it with his power. It was made evil, with no other purpose. Even in your trivial (to my mind) examples of the water in a bottle or a person in a house your argument falls apart, because element of a bottle's contents and a person living in a house become part and portion of the structure, molecules among the glass molecules, spent air and shed skin cells, in the other. The Ring was EVIL. Designed so, intended so, and made so.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yeah the Ring was made with evil intentions for power and rule over Middle-Earth.

[Haradrim]

okay I will concede for the sake of not seriously ticking people off. I dont think Iwill ever change my mind ( becasue I am too stubborn) and neither will oyu guys. So I suggest that we just shake hands and part on this because Ill never give up and neither will you guys and I dont want this to turn into a histile thread. So good job everyone on your persuasive arguments and good reasoning.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Thats my point. THe ring was inatimite so how could it be evil. Just cuz he placed some spirit inside of it. THe spirit is evil the inatimate thing is still neither. I never meant to szy it was good (tho I probably did ) How can some thing be evil it has no mind and you cant give it a mind. You can however put something evil into a inatimait object but does that make the ring evil. THat is the discussion and I personally say no. The power and all the things it did were evil but the inatimate object wasnt evil.

It became evil when Sauron placed his malice and cruelty into it which made the ring a part of him. That is why Sauron couldn't be in his true form without the ring. I don't recall you arguing that the the ring was an inanimate object therefore it couldn't be evil, until I brought that up.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

So good job everyone on your persuasive arguments and good reasoning.

Thanks, guy and no hard feelings. Just don't start a thread on Balrog wings.