Why LOTR is the work of the devil

[Kallasilya]

Originally posted by Entlover
True enough, which is why I have no problem reading it. But kids are another matter - they are very impressionable -- how many of us remember significant books of our childhood? And HP is aimed at kids.
I met a witch once - nasty character. I don't think kids should be taught that there can be "good" witches.

Oh come now... I consider myself to be a witch, and I'm not all THAT nasty, now am I? Lol, seriously though, I've met a lot of people who are down on witches just because they've met one bad apple. Let's just say witches like that are exactly the same as Christians that wrote that stupid article. We're not all bad

And to be on topic: ... Gah. What can I say, that site says POKEMON is promoting the devil...

[sun-star]

Oh, but crickhollow, it is possible to be a Christian-of-sorts. There are people who say they're Christian, but who aren't firm in their faith and who don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. There are plenty of people like that, unfortunately, and it is such people as that that cause trouble for Christianity as a whole. Some of them are hard nosed prigs, like the one who posted this message about LoTR, while others don't set any good example, but calling themselves Christians, proceed to do whatever the rest of the world does so long as it feels good for them.

That's true, but it's not our decision to make. Outsiders can have no idea of an individual's relationship to God. What the writer of this article is doing is making that judgement himself, without thinking maybe he should attend to the log in his own eye (or whatever that quote is) rather than judging other people. And now I'm doing the same thing, because that man might be a saint. Wouldn't put money on it, though

In fact, that's almost this writer's whole problem. He doesn't allow that Tolkien (or indeed JK Rowling) may in fact have known rather better than him what they were doing, and what the effects might be, and not deliberately leading people to Satan.

[Lief Erikson]

I think it is fair for Christians to condemn, to other Christians, material that is occultic in nature. You can't simply dump all material out there into one bin and say that we don't have the right to judge. Some of it plainly is wrong, but if you're going to make judgements, it is good to pray for discernment and to be careful. I think that author is just down on fantasy.

And I also think that you can determine who is a Christian by their fruit; if Christ is working in a person's life and you know how to look for it, you will see it. On the other hand, if the person isn't behaving in their outward actions as if the inward change has taken place, then that can be seen too, sometimes.

[zavron]

I hate religeous fanatics theyre so damn ....... RELIGEOUS!!!..... they think theyre in touch with god....... WAKE AND SMELL THE SEAWEED PEOPLE ITS ALL BLOODY RUBBISH!!!! i dont mind religeon itself but you shouldnt devote your whole life in being like a hippy!! if you want to devote your life to religeon become a monk for gods sake!!!!! If you want to do something do it the proper way!!!

Never laugh at live dragons!!!

zavron

[Lief Erikson]

If you saw fire fall down from heaven, or saw the Red Sea parted, or heard a voice from no human being, but from heaven, would you believe?

[webwizard333]

And to be on topic: ... Gah. What can I say, that site says POKEMON is promoting the devil...

Well, it is a game that promotes making little creatures fight against one another so you can obtain petty badges and capture more and inprison them in marbles.

Though I believe that the author has the right to say what he wants to say about such subjects, I think its just silly and shows an inability to comprehend the reading material. Tolkien's works, I find are suffused with brilliant moral statements, while at the same time telling are moving and brilliant story.

[Lief Erikson]

Everyone here agrees with you.

[Tar-Palantir]

Originally posted by zavron
I hate religeous fanatics theyre so damn ....... RELIGEOUS!!!..... they think theyre in touch with god....... WAKE AND SMELL THE SEAWEED PEOPLE ITS ALL BLOODY RUBBISH!!!! i dont mind religeon itself but you shouldnt devote your whole life in being like a hippy!! if you want to devote your life to religeon become a monk for gods sake!!!!! If you want to do something do it the proper way!!!

zavron

LOL That sounds pretty fanatical to me.

But I do agree with your last statement about doing something in the proper way.

Why should I become a monk? I think I'll be content with being an English Baptist, not from England mind you, but an English Baptist nonetheless.

And if you're ever in the Pelennor Fields of east Texas, drop in and we'll discuss this religious fanaticism over a good cigar. What do you say?

[TolkienGurl]

Thank goodness not all religious people are like that! I'm Christian and I absolutely LOVE the Lord of the Rings. Don't worry - I'm not possessed by the devil!

[Lanelf]

Welcome TolkienGurl! Glad to see you on the Moot!
Anyway, the way I think, this is not some satanic thing. If you actually look, there is a (sorta) major Evil figure (eg Melkor, Sauron etc) and the fight agains it and isn't that the idea? I mean, you can't be worshipping something if you're kicking it, can you? I just don't get some people... And I'm Christian, too...*shakes head and walks off muttering*
Lanelf.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Well- it never occused it of being satanic did it? Just, being involved with the occult... which some pagans would consider themself a part of... and most pagans and stuff in the occult consider themselves the "good" using "good" magic against the "bad" and "evil"... correct me if i am wrong. I have talked to a pagan online before concerning religion and it seemed to me that they are very much as good and peaceful as christians, and that they believe in keeping the environment and harmony and stuff.

But the difference- they worship something other than the Christian God- they worship a God who can take on different forms. So i suppose to point isn't whether they're "good" or "bad" -the point is, they don't worship the christian God.
So they are "good" fighting against "evil" using magic and worship other than the christian god. It is much the same way in Middle-Earth, right? Any thing with magic can be taken wrongly and be a bad influence on some people.

[TolkienGurl]

Thanks, Lanelf! It's nice to meet all of you!

[englishnerd]

Tolkien is about story. People respond instantly to buzzwords "wizard" "magic" "evil" "spell" and "fantasy," but the language, the actual words out of context will not determine the "good" or "bad" of the book...it's whole story together that gives you the morality, ideas, and worldview that is being presented.

I'm sure most of you knew that, but I wanted to establish my grounds first :-).

the main thing about websites like this one is that by claiming to be a Christian, this person is subscribing to Christ's calling to the church...Jesus' one commandment was to "love your neighbor as yourself, and love one another as I have loved you." Christ's love was sacrificial, an atoning for judgement, and, in fact, the complete opposite of the judgemental actions and words that this person was displaying under the name of Christian. As was pointed out earlier, no "outsider," although I'm not sure I like that word, can know anyone else's heart, but when actions and words are not reflecting the standard they claim, the person deserves to be held accountable to the same standard they claim allegiance to. If a soldier goes AWOL, the army has the right to judge him according to his commitments. don't be afraid to hold people accountable to their own critical standard, but don't strike back at them in the same way that was so offensive to you. um...okay I think I'm done. sorry for the length.

[sun-star]

As was pointed out earlier, no "outsider," although I'm not sure I like that word, can know anyone else's heart, but when actions and words are not reflecting the standard they claim, the person deserves to be held accountable to the same standard they claim allegiance to. If a soldier goes AWOL, the army has the right to judge him according to his commitments. don't be afraid to hold people accountable to their own critical standard, but don't strike back at them in the same way that was so offensive to you.

You're right: we should hold people accountable to the standards they profess to hold - but certainly not to our personal standards. I may be wrong, but I believe each person should deal with living up to their own standards, before worrying if anyone else does (which is what the phrase 'Christian of sorts' used in this article implies). Of course you can (sometimes) tell if people are behaving like hypocritics, but being a hypocrite is not the same as being different to what the person making the judgement believes. Also: 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Leave God to make the decisions on the correctness or otherwise of someone's life and beliefs - and help them base their 'standards' on God.

This is off topic, anyway .

And if I'm off topic: by the way, englishnerd, are you english? Where are you from?

[DraztiK]

And to be on topic: ... Gah. What can I say, that site says POKEMON is promoting the devil...

That must've been a Protestant, cuz the *Pope* publicly stated he likes Pokémon.

[Lanelf]

And to be on topic: ... Gah. What can I say, that site says POKEMON is promoting the devil...

And Pokemon is *not* evil? Eep, I always thought so!That Pikachu is seriously scary!
Lanelf.

[webwizard333]

I'm 99.9% sure that the author is Protestant, mainly because of his articles concerning the positive results of the Protestant Reformation.

[Tar-Palantir]

Originally posted by webwizard333
I'm 99.9% sure that the author is Protestant, mainly because of his articles concerning the positive results of the Protestant Reformation.

I'm surprised to find that he had anything good to say about the Protestant reformation. I was under the impression that Mr. Cloud is of a right-wing sect of Baptists who do not consider themselves Protestants either. I do know he is baptist if you want to be specific. But he is certainly not mainstream. Nor is his name even recognizable among baptists outside of a very small circle that he serves. This one thread has gotten him more fame than his useless article deserved. He most certainly does not represent mainstream thought, even in American evangelical circles.

[Christiana]

man,its a free country.people have a right to be stupid.

[Tar-Palantir]

Originally posted by Christiana
man,its a free country.people have a right to be stupid.

Man, that's true. (grin)