11-26-2003, 02:38 PM | #121 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA
Posts: 195
|
Quote:
__________________
A citizen runs to the fire department yelling that he's spotted a roaring blaze from his car. "WHERE IS IT?" the fire department asks, pen ready. "It rises like some brooding , glaring trail of cosmic fury from- " "WHERE? WHERE?" "Oh. Well, it blazes up from a crimson-sheathed visage brooding darkly above the haunted towers of impotent indignity which, like melons hovering unhappily over lifetimes of empty meaning which-" "THE ADDRESS!" "Oh. Oh, I didn't notice. But look for a brooding, glaring trail of cosmic fury rising from a crimson-sheathed visage-" They lead him back to his car, and send him on. -- Philip K. Dick "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot Last edited by zinnite : 11-26-2003 at 02:43 PM. |
|
11-26-2003, 03:08 PM | #122 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
Quote:
|
|
11-26-2003, 03:14 PM | #123 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-26-2003, 03:37 PM | #124 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA
Posts: 195
|
Quote:
And of course the empahisis of my statement was not on the evil, but on the noble nature of the Gondorians. In the film we see none of that, only them savagely beating the creature (who is only trying to get away), evil or no. And JD is right--Gollum was a very mixed character, and hardly purely evil. That should be obvious to even novice fans of the film.
__________________
A citizen runs to the fire department yelling that he's spotted a roaring blaze from his car. "WHERE IS IT?" the fire department asks, pen ready. "It rises like some brooding , glaring trail of cosmic fury from- " "WHERE? WHERE?" "Oh. Well, it blazes up from a crimson-sheathed visage brooding darkly above the haunted towers of impotent indignity which, like melons hovering unhappily over lifetimes of empty meaning which-" "THE ADDRESS!" "Oh. Oh, I didn't notice. But look for a brooding, glaring trail of cosmic fury rising from a crimson-sheathed visage-" They lead him back to his car, and send him on. -- Philip K. Dick "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot |
|
11-26-2003, 10:48 PM | #125 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
|
Sween -- I agree, it seems like he wanted to take every character on a "journey." I felt like there were enough characters on a journey (character arc) already, that we didn't need to see Faramir and Theoden (outside of the first "awakening") go on one. The fact that Faramir "foils" his brother and falls in love with Eowyn is plenty for his character, and Theoden's transformation from dottering old man to becoming once again a valiant leader is plenty for him. They already have the Aragorn arc, the Frodo one, the Sam one, the Merry and Pippin one, the Eowyn one, the Arwen one they've brought forth, and the Gandalf one we've already seen (Grey to White), plus the Gimli and Legolas one (becoming friendly and eventually inseparable), AND the Gollum one, that there are enough arcs already in the story to make several ovals!( <these are directed at myself for that last comment :P ).
|
11-29-2003, 04:29 PM | #126 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
I just saw TT extended for the first tikme last night. Jackson is more of an idiot than I imagined. He continues to imply that pipeweed is pot and then he also has Merry and Pippin as the down idiots in Flotsom and Jetsom. So much for them"growing" in TT as everyone claimed.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
11-29-2003, 04:47 PM | #127 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
|
11-29-2003, 04:57 PM | #128 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-29-2003, 09:21 PM | #129 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
|
11-29-2003, 09:32 PM | #130 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
As I have said though repeatedly - Pippin and Merry from the books were more like wide-eyed innocents seeing the world for the first time. More like it is when someone sees NY who has never been there before. I enjoy showing people around who have never been here before - but if they acted like Pippin and Merry in the movies - I would quickly get annoyed. That is why I do not think that jackson captured them properly and I think he turned them in comic relief and just plain bumbling idiots.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-30-2003, 01:17 AM | #131 | |
Viggoholic
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,749
|
Quote:
I don't think these scenes show them as innocents, but as idiots. The way Merry tries to measure Pippin's height makes me cringe every time. You don't need to show Pippin's youth in the movies -- it's not that important. It would be better to imply nothing about Pippin's age than make him stupid. I suppose we should hope for something better in the ROTK.
__________________
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. |
|
11-30-2003, 04:28 AM | #132 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Dunny, why do you use ellipses all the time?
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-30-2003, 09:45 AM | #133 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
On the other hand, the Osgiliath scene with Denethor and his sons were very well done. I appreciate seeing the love between the two brothers, despite their father's attitude, and I enjoyed watching how much Boromir was loved by the people of Gondor. Must mention the Huorns too. Nice to have them in. They were great.
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
|
11-30-2003, 12:52 PM | #134 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
As usual, we have a bunch of folks overreacting to a scene straight out of Tolkien.
To put it bluntly, the Gondorian soldiers were provoked to violence. Gollum struggled against his captors. He clawed, scratched, and snapped at the soldiers. No wonder they weren't particularly gentle with him--which is exactly the way Tolkien described their behavior towards Gollum. Maybe you didn't picture as much violence as Jackson did. But once again, you can't fault him for taking something Tolkien implied in the text and expanding upon it for film. |
11-30-2003, 01:27 PM | #135 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
|
originally posted by Black Breathalizer
To put it bluntly, the Gondorian soldiers were provoked to violence. Gollum struggled against his captors. He clawed, scratched, and snapped at the soldiers. No wonder they weren't particularly gentle with him--which is exactly the way Tolkien described their behavior towards Gollum. _______________________________________ Actually, I believe the Gondorians did not use violence on Gollum, only threatened to use force if he continued resisting. "At that moment the great black shape of Anborn loomed up behind him and came down on him. He twisted round like lightning, all wet and slimy as he was, wriggling like an eel, biting and scratching like a cat. But two more men came up out of the shadows. "Hold still!" said one. "or we'll stick you as full of pins as a hedgehog. Hold still!" That's a use of, and threat of employing more, minimal force, not the gratuitous caught on video police-style beating up seen in the dvd. But it should be noted that Faramir doesn't participate and seems to be ordering the beating to stop.
__________________
Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin : 11-30-2003 at 01:30 PM. |
11-30-2003, 01:40 PM | #136 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
I didn't see Gollum fight or struggle in the scene I'm talking about. There was no need for violence. The Gondorians kicked him when he was lying on the ground.
This is what the book says: Quote:
However, my complaint is not that the scene isn't taken directly from the book, it's that Faramir's character deviates from the book. It is my strong opinion that the Faramir in the book would never have permitted, and certainly not watched without interfering, such a treatment of Gollum as was shown in the dvd. Faramir in the book was stern and strong, but would not turn to violence unless it was necessary.
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 11-30-2003 at 01:46 PM. |
|
11-30-2003, 02:11 PM | #137 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
About Merry and Pip, here I agree with Dúnedain. I don't think they came out as stupid in the movies. I would rather say playful and light-spoken, which is in line with the way Hobbits generally are.
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
11-30-2003, 04:08 PM | #138 |
Sapling
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 11
|
After Gollum's capture and interrogation (in the book), Faramir says, "Take this creature away, Anborn. Treat him gently, but watch him."
__________________
Fingolfin like a shooting light/beneath a cloud, a stab of white/ sprang then aside, and Ringil drew/like ice that gleameth cold and blue/ his sword devised of elvish skill/to pierce the flesh with deadly chill/ With seven wounds it rent his foe/and seven mighty cries of woe/ rang in the mountains, and the earth quook/and Angband's trembling armies shook/ |
11-30-2003, 04:40 PM | #139 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
As for Gollum BB - the Gondorians NEVER held Gollum while one person punched him, nor did they then throw him against the wall. He was just afraid that they were going to hurt him in the books.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-30-2003, 05:14 PM | #140 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Quote:
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Favorite Scenes from TTT Extended Edition... | Dúnedain | Lord of the Rings Movies | 54 | 02-03-2004 09:10 AM |
Extended edition commentary | Churl | Lord of the Rings Movies | 21 | 06-24-2003 11:04 PM |
Extended Edition of FotR!! | Maren | Lord of the Rings Movies | 258 | 03-15-2003 08:59 PM |
DVD Extended Edition Surprise | LegolasRoX | General Messages | 3 | 01-04-2003 12:27 AM |
Plans for extended edition | GandalfTheWhite | Lord of the Rings Movies | 3 | 11-12-2002 12:10 AM |