12-06-2003, 07:58 PM | #121 | |
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Re: the definative balrog answer :)
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03-11-2004, 02:53 PM | #122 |
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I think this the Balrogs Wings topic. thought id bring it up !
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03-22-2004, 12:43 AM | #123 | ||
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Good. I feel like mindlessly arguing. I encourage others to mindlessly flame me.
Look what I came across, all by myself: Quote:
Notice also, how in this introductory description, there is no mention of wings at all. So I will take it a step further: the Balrog never had wings of any sort, or Tolkien certainly would have told us here. But still another detail: Quote:
Similarly, if I were to play with my hand in front of a light and say "Look at the monkey on the wall," it does not mean that my hand is a monkey. (And I assure you it is not.) But the shadow looks like a monkey's sillouette. And the Balrog's shadow looks like wings, but solid wings, or even smokey ones, do not excist.
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03-22-2004, 03:08 AM | #124 |
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*smacks Bomb with an extremely smelly fish*
And I'm sure that particular detail probably exists countless times, in countless threads, all across the universe. *runs off with his pants, AND the balrogs* heh heh heh...
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03-22-2004, 10:51 AM | #125 | ||
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what' wrong with shadowy wings? are they any less real? you said... Quote:
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03-22-2004, 11:20 PM | #126 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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03-22-2004, 11:30 PM | #127 |
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The word "shadow" is being interpereted different ways here. I mean, and I think Tolkien meant, the actual normal old shadows that were cast on the walls by the balrog's light. I think you are imagining some floating darkness, like smoke. I don't think that would be possible because of the way it seemingly ignited itself while jumping over the fire (in the first quote there). The wings, if they existed, would have been on fire also. Unless they actually were smoke, but they were present before the flames, and so that would not be possible as smoke cannot excist without fire.
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03-22-2004, 11:49 PM | #128 |
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and what cast those wing-like shadows?
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03-23-2004, 07:39 PM | #129 |
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*yawn* Balrogs don't have wings. Plus, don't you want to pick on Peter Jackson for something else he got wrong?
Sorry, I know this is the book thread, but I couldn't help myself.
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03-24-2004, 10:51 AM | #130 | |
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04-30-2004, 03:58 PM | #131 | |
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02-25-2009, 05:44 AM | #132 |
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I hardly dare to write here as a newbie fearing the wrath of some of you, but I might just try and put this to rest, being a "balrog" myself. I've looked at a lot of sites, and I've read the areas in the Sil and the Fellowship. I agree with some people that, from a purely reading/enjoyment standpoint, it only really matters what you want them to look like. But in essence, the Sil says that the Maia also had the power to change form at will. Since a Valarauco is a Maia, it seems that as it says in the Fellowship "It drew itself up to a great height....it's wings were spread from wall to wall" that they could stay man size if need be, but being Maia, could also become larger and more terrible. And thus could also have wings if necessary. In answer to the common problem of "well how did it fall from the bridge then if it could fly" well, when I get bored of my flamy shape, it takes a good chunk of power and some time. The things sword, which it would seem is created by it's power of flame, was thrown up in shards and it seems Gandalf prevented it from somehow getting another, otherwise it would just have reformed it. Thus the Valarauco had neither time nor power to spare. I don't really know why people WOULDN'T want a Balrog to have wings. Doesn't it look cooler that way? Please tell me what you think.
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02-25-2009, 01:56 PM | #133 |
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Why is it that no one ever thought to ask Tolkien if Balrogs had wings when he was still alive?
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02-25-2009, 03:33 PM | #134 | |
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Amongst other things, one can read: " To complicate matters, it isn't clear that Tolkien considered Balrogs to be Maiar at the time he wrote this passage. In his original conception, he saw Balrogs as creatures created by Morgoth, and not Maiar at all. The first references to their later origin as Maiar appear in texts from the 1950's, dated ten years or more after the Balrog descriptions in The Lord of the Rings were written. It's impossible to know for sure whether the Balrog of Khazad-dûm, as Tolkien imagined it at the time, was a Maia or not. Indeed, the fact that it is twice referred to as a 'Balrog of Morgoth' hints that Tolkien imagined it as Morgoth's creation, rather than his ally. "
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02-25-2009, 07:32 PM | #135 |
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I am on record as saying that Balrogs could look like anything they darned well pleased. What are Balrogs made of, anyhow? Certainly not bone and sinew. Probably some divine (or demonic) ichor that made shape-changing a breeze.
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02-25-2009, 07:59 PM | #136 |
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Yeah, perhaps they can. I happened to like the movie-version. Looked ancient without coming of as too cartoonish
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02-25-2009, 08:34 PM | #137 |
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I agree that the Balrog had not yet lost his/her shape-shifting ability.
The shape-shifting Maiar were not necessarily made of ichor - Sauron back in the First Age had this ability, yet he was of flesh and blood: Huan wounded him in a hound form and the bat-form he used to fly away still had blood dripping, IIRC. Last edited by Gordis : 02-26-2009 at 06:31 AM. Reason: spelling |
02-26-2009, 02:33 AM | #138 | |
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Quote:
Besides. I'm a Balrog. I should know. |
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02-26-2009, 02:48 AM | #139 |
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This is a perfect example of how bad the encyclopedia can be. The Book specifically states that "it was man-sized......" and "It drew itself up to a great height" Doesn't that sound like it could change shape to anyone but me?
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02-26-2009, 04:09 AM | #140 |
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Here's another great contradictory on Balrogs in the encyclopedia. Under Durin's Bane it has "In January III 3019, the Company of the Ring travelled through Moria on the Quest of Mount Doom. In Gandalf, the Balrog finally encountered a being of the same order and power as itself. As the two Maiar faced each other on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm,..." Which implies that the encyclopedia thinks they are both Maiar. Isn't that great?
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