01-31-2005, 06:42 PM | #121 |
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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Yeah, thanks.^^ Ok, I found one of the Avatar Journals lying around my house. You can go to AvatarEPC.com if you want some information. I also found a book some guy wrote about Avatar- the founder maybe? I was reading some parts out of it a few months ago and I thought it was pretty interesting. It's called Living Deliberately. He had one of those tanks with the solution and it's dark and quiet and you can't feel hardly anything. Yep, well there ya go.
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02-01-2005, 03:52 PM | #122 | |
Fëanorophobic
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the pages of a book
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Thanks a lot for the info
However, I don't get this part: Quote:
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02-01-2005, 11:33 PM | #123 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Well, the argument really is pretty ridiculous. It basically is saying that if you rely upon anything you didn't figure out for yourself, you're weak. So all teachers in schools should be fired? All college professors should be out of work? All scientists should quit? Everyone relies upon information passed down from previous generations to some extent- that goes down even to the animal species, which learn which foods are good and which are bad from observing their parents. I'm actually quite capable of producing evidence that highschool violence took a dramatic increase upon the removal of teaching standard morality in schools. Drugs, sex and violence all leapt up after teachers began telling the students to "figure out morality themselves." Building upon the learning of previous generations had our teachers in the 1960s and earlier worrying about gum being stuck to the bottom of desks . . . not guns being hidden in drawers. Clearly taught morality is better for society then the leaving of our children to search things out on their own. Quote:
Anyway, it is an interesting topic . I don't intend to debate the matter with you much at all. It's just a matter of interest. Quote:
I'll try not to attack your beliefs either, and I'm certainly unaware of what's been happening with you spiritually. But I am curious as to your opinions on these matters.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-01-2005 at 11:36 PM. |
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02-02-2005, 01:09 AM | #124 | |
The Dude
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, Last edited by Millane : 02-02-2005 at 01:13 AM. |
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02-02-2005, 12:51 PM | #125 |
Elf Lord
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Or the most sense....
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-02-2005, 01:29 PM | #126 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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teachings a good thing... as is taking lessons from the past... but we all ultimately decide whether or not to accept what is taught to us... or how to interpret that past... so whether christian or atheist, or somewhere in the middle, we all ultimately choose our morality
i wouldn't call making any choice a weakness... though accepting something without good reason might be
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
02-02-2005, 03:26 PM | #127 | |
Elf Lord
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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02-02-2005, 08:32 PM | #128 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-02-2005, 08:39 PM | #129 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-03-2005, 12:31 AM | #130 | |
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
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This is my situation, and this is where I get upset. It seems to be an inarguable point, but I want a solution. None of my questions here are rhetorical. So right now, I think the solution is this: Catholicism is wrong to dismiss me for simply questioning its authority, which is a regular and healthy activity for any sentient being. On a similar note, does anyone know if Martin Luther was considered a sinner by Christian standards for questioning the Church's authority? I know once he officially established Lutheranism he was "safe," but in the process, how much did they let him think before damning him to hell? OT: What's so bloody terrible about revealing a weakness?
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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02-03-2005, 02:25 AM | #131 | |||||
Elf Lord
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There are also many, many, many Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Christians (along with many other faiths) that have excellent thinkers in them. Many of the brilliant minds (including scientists, like Isaac Newton) of the past have been Christian. Atheism really is very small, in comparison. Most people in the world believe there to be a God. Many modern astronomers, because of what they see in nature, have been going into philosophy and religion. They realize because of the impossible intricacy of what they observe that God must exist. Or at least that's what they believe. Quote:
I wouldn't ask you to disregard logic either. That would be rather ridiculous. I'm curious why you don't believe now, curious how your logic goes. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-03-2005, 03:08 AM | #132 | |
Elf Lord
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I won't argue that Christians have had powerful experiences where they "feel" God. Emotions can run high at religious gatherings, especially in one's youth. I've experienced this. I had the emotional high, the adrenaline rush, and the sudden realization and giving up of myself to God...and it disappeared. I've swung back and forth through religion/spirituality in the last five or so years (you can even chronicle some of it on Entmoot). I do crave something, I want to be more in tune with my spiritual side...but I feel ostracized and uncomfortable at churches. My "question mark" comes from blatant hypocrisy. It comes from personal studies of inaccuracies in an ancient book. It comes from looking at the world and wondering what kind of God, who apparently loves us all, would do nothing to intervene in our own destruction. What kind of parent is that? A bad one, in my mind. And Christians aren't the only group to have these powerful experiences. Muslims, pagans, Jews, etc. have similar experiences that "confirm" their faith as well. If so, who is correct? Don't you think God, being the "jealous" God He is, wouldn't allow such ambiguity?
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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02-03-2005, 04:18 AM | #133 | |
The Dude
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
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02-03-2005, 04:32 AM | #134 |
Elf Lord
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Thanks for the response, Starr . It's certainly enlightening. I can respond to it, if you're interested at all in discussing those issues you brought up. Of course, my response would be a bit lengthy .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-03-2005 at 04:38 AM. |
02-03-2005, 04:37 AM | #135 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-03-2005, 06:46 AM | #136 | ||||
Fëanorophobic
Join Date: May 2004
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You're saying God appears to you as a bad parent? But, from your post, I can see you have some interest in spirituality. So wouldn't you say (and I would then agree with you) that we as people are spirits in essence and not bodies? In that case, then life on Earth is not our ultimate fate: there will be a Hereafter where we'll exist as pure souls. So if you look at it that way, hardships we suffer on Earth are really a trial for our faith, for our strength of spirit; and what good parent wouldn't test his children to make sure they've learned their lesson? Quote:
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02-03-2005, 09:17 AM | #137 | ||
The Dude
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
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02-03-2005, 02:22 PM | #138 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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02-03-2005, 05:38 PM | #139 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I would never tell my kids to blindly follow my beliefs. However, because I think my beliefs are true, in the same way that 1+1=2, I certainly will inform my children about it. Why would I tell them some things that I think are true and not others? I will also teach them how to think and evaluate for themselves, and encourage them to do just that. See, some people will say things like this : "I don't think parents should force their beliefs on their children, so I don't intend to tell my kids what I think is right - I'll let them discover it for themselves." If you think something is right, why in the world wouldn't you tell your kids that? And if you don't think anything is right - i.e., you say something like this : "I think everyone needs to discover their own truths!", then of couse you're doing the same thing that I'm doing - you're telling your kids what you think is right! I think mindless belief - ANY type of mindless belief - is wrong. I think a person should be able to defend their beliefs, WHATEVER they are, because they've thought them thru a lot. Personally, I believe that my beliefs correctly reflect the actual state of our universe, and I intend to share them with my kids, just as I intend to share things like, "If you step in front of a moving car, you'll get hurt." I think a lot of parents are being hogwashed into being afraid to tell their kids what they think is true. That's ridiculous, IMO. I intend to tell my kids WHAT I think is true, and WHY I think it's true, and I intend to teach them how to think and analyze for themselves. I want my kids to grow up to become fully independant human beings, not taking anyone's opinion without thinking about it and deciding for themselves whether or not it's true.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-03-2005 at 05:41 PM. |
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02-03-2005, 05:39 PM | #140 | |||||
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
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(You apparently did understand my main idea, BTW, but I worded those few sentences ambiguously.) Quote:
Often when I go to Chruch (so as not to break my mom's heart ) I get frustrated with the priests who make homilies out of "You can't get to heaven unless you..." I don't think Heaven should be the main motivation to a good deed, and I'm glad to find someone who understands me on this. Quote:
At least from what I've been taught, it isn't enough to get to heaven if you do good for your whole lifetime; you have to do good in order to please God, and after doing a good deed, be warm and fuzzy that you made God happy. People who don't praise God in this way (like me, who doubts; or Ghandi, who believed something else) all go to hell. This is the point I strongly disagree with and this is the main reason I've drifted away from Catholicism. Its logic is flawed, and it hasn't realized yet. If God really sent Ghandi to hell, then explain to me how he can be omnicient, understanding, compassionate, merciful, forgiving, loving, or any other "Godly" adjective. I'm not gonna praise God for that. Granted, it's taught that "God works in mysterious ways, too complex for mortals to understand." (It's a well-thought-out religion in that respect, if you know what I mean.) But that's where I draw the line between admitting my own imperfection and submitting to brainwash. I want to think about it, just consider if the Church might be wrong--that's all, and it's an innocent thought--but if I come to any conclusions that don't favor the religion, I go to hell!?! I don't think it's that black and white, Vatican, if I'm just using my supposedly God-given reason. Quote:
Everyday miracles, like someone entering a trance while praying or feeling "touched" while praying, also happen to atheist people in non-denominational meditation. It isn't so far-fetched to call these experiences natural, because we only use about 10% of our brains at a time. When you sit down with the intention to sort through your thoughts and be at peace, your mind can relax like never before and not surprisingly you can feel what seems to be a new, foreign, presence. Because you're in an altered state of consciousness, it's possible that the presence you feel is actually our own self, together in a higher percentage than you're used to, because you have relaxed your mind for a change. The mistake (as I see it possible) that Catholics make is expecting God, so when they feel that rare peace they assume it's God himself before considering other possiblities. Quote:
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 02-03-2005 at 05:45 PM. |
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