Dying for Colored Rags - Page 7

jerseydevil · 06-13-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
I must have failed the test. I really liked the Central Red Hockey Teams.

I don't root for any particular team. It's more of the style of play.

Well obviously you are just weird.

Most people root for their countries team.

Quote:

HOWEVER, when I was teaching in Saudi Arabia I always rooted AGAINST the Saudi team. I was quite happy about the Germans blowing them out 8-0

Why did you root against them?

afro-elf · 06-13-2003, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Well obviously you are just weird.

That I can not deny.

Quote:

Why did you root against them?

Just a lousy experience with the culture.

I will say I do like "Western" culture the best of all.

Baby-K · 06-13-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

I will say I do like "Western" culture the best of all.

So that's why ye quote Blazing Saddles in yer sig - yer just a little cowboy at heart, innit?

afro-elf · 06-13-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baby-K
So that's why ye quote Blazing Saddles in yer sig - yer just a little cowboy at heart, innit?

DOH, you are on a roll today.

I just have to get my horse whip and ...err this a pg 13 thread

afro-elf · 06-13-2003, 09:22 AM

Quote:

little

Little

Baby-K · 06-13-2003, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
DOH, you are on a roll today.

I just have to get my horse whip and ...err this a pg 13 thread

Ooh, stoppit now, yer exiting me! (Ah, whips & chains........)

Baby-K · 06-13-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
Little

Aaaahhhh - the age old - 'Does size really matter?' question......

afro-elf · 06-13-2003, 09:27 AM

I forgot to ask why did you remove your picture?

Baby-K · 06-13-2003, 09:31 AM

Because it's a crappy pic & I don't look like that anymore (unfortunately I cannot post the good ones 'cos they'd not make it past SGH I'm afeared

)

afro-elf · 06-13-2003, 09:43 AM

check the PM

Baby-K · 06-13-2003, 09:47 AM

have done - will do - doobie doobie doo

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-14-2003, 03:02 AM

Feanor.

I think something very important in terms of cultural identity is not forgetting where you, or your ancestors come from. At least, it's important to me! I may have been born in America, but I will never forget that my great-grandfather came from Lithuania, and that my other great(or more greats)-grandparents are from Russia and Ireland. That's all part of my heritage and cultural identity. To me America is a place that was safe for my antecendants, and happens to be where I was born. I'm not exactly proud to be American--I am more grateful to America for being there and relatively accepting of immigrants, and having opportunities, so that I could be born and where I am today. It is a matter of gratitude rather than pride. I feel no connection at all to those who fought in the revolution and wrote the constitution.

But that cultural identity is not, to me, Nationalism. Nationalism leans more, at least in the way I know it as, towards the superiority of culture, etc. And even if not, well, what matters to me is cultural identity, and being a part of that. Not necessarily pride, but at least acknowledgement.

Furthermore, a country is not a cause I would die for. There are certainly many things I WOULD die for, and more specific causes, but if the only reason it seems that someone wants me to fight is "for America," well, that's not good enough. Given a good enough cause and I'll give my life, but, though "America" has done so much for me, and I'm willing to give back, my life is a different matter.

Lizra · 06-14-2003, 11:12 AM

I find cultural heritage confusing. I can't identifiy with it too much. I am half Armenian, and I know my granparents immigrated because of the Turkish masacres in the early 1900's. Both ladies (mom and "Nonny") have told me stories of Turkish atrocities and women getting their breasts sliced off. (that was ther most common story!

) Yet, I do not get a surge of anger when thinking of, or talking to Turks. That was then, this is now.... (and I'm American! ) Everything's different! (or is it? they say you learn from the past, but that can get weird! )

I ID with being American. I love my country!

(and I expect others to feel the same about their countries, no super big "rah rah" deal, just a *good* sense of belonging). The pride I feel when an American flag is unfurled is simply innocent pleasure. I'm not on the same field with the Rush song lyrics. When countries go to war, there are usually complex, underlying reasons. I do not feel guilty for my flag "pride"!

(IMO) It's one of life's simple pleasures!

jerseydevil · 06-14-2003, 12:36 PM

I feel the same way Lizra. My ancestors came from a bunch of countries. I have no ties to those countries. I really don't care if Northern Ireland is part of Britain or part of Ireland. Why should I? I don't live there. It's not MY home. America is my home and I am AMERICAN. If people have more of a tie to where their ancestors came from and care more about those countries - then they should go back to those countries.

And yes I do think a country is worth dying for - it's MY country. It's my home. If it is under attack - I will die for it and die for the freedoms we enjoy.

sun-star · 06-14-2003, 01:06 PM

I just read that it was on this day in 1777 that America adopted its particular "coloured rag" as its flag. So happy birthday to the Stars and Stripes

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-14-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wahine
Lovely analogy AE!

Rather.

Though I'm too lazy to go back and quote (

), I rather agree with Shee-oP. To me, America is something more than just a piece of land. To me, America is more of an abstract, the culture, the history, the heritage, than it is the land it took place on. Though, then again, also the land is a big part of it; I mean, (to reverse my previous statement

) it is the place where it all took place; it is where the pioneers struggled against the freezing winter winds; it is where the Native Americans struggled to retain their dignity, their pride, and their homes (one thing I'm not too happy about re: America

), it is where the thirteen colonies united to oppose taxation without representation. It is where so much happened; it really is a part of America, almost as much as the history and heritage.

Happy Birthday!

Ruinel · 06-14-2003, 02:03 PM

When my mother came to the US, she changed her citizenship right away. She was very proud to be an American. But she never forgot her own heritage and tried to instill that in me.

My aunt came over a year afterward, but she did not change her citizenship for many years. She said, just in case she decided to go back. But she never did.

afro-elf · 06-14-2003, 09:26 PM

Where is your mom from? ( besides Valinor)

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-14-2003, 10:29 PM

France, I believe (not sure though).

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-15-2003, 03:51 AM

Hmm, I don't think I said what I meant too before about dying for my country. What I meant was, yes, if the country was clearly very much under attack (like, people actually invading our land, crossing onto our borders, or at least sending bombs over or something), yes, I would gladly fight for the country. (Am recalling, though, something said by Gen. Patton: (paraphrased) "it's not about dying for your country, it's about making the other sons of ***** die for theirs.") However, in a war, like, say Iraq, there's no way in any of the Hells I'd go fight for that. I won't fight for imperialism, I fight against it. I will fight for freedom from oppression, etc, but in any event I would prefer to "fight" in ways besides violence. Violence only begets violence, and although I am not idealistic enough to believe we can stop war and violence, etc, I think I can do something to lessen it, or at least try. Um, something like that.

This reminds me of learning about the Americans who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War (which was rather against the law for them). I would have gone to fight there, with the Lincoln Brigade. Just a note.

06-13-2003, 09:27 AM	#128
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I forgot to ask why did you remove your picture? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-13-2003, 09:31 AM	#129
Baby-K Corruptor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jozi SA Posts: 1,885	Because it's a crappy pic & I don't look like that anymore (unfortunately I cannot post the good ones 'cos they'd not make it past SGH I'm afeared ) __________________ Don't wet yourself with excitement.

06-13-2003, 09:43 AM	#130
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	check the PM __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-13-2003, 09:47 AM	#131
Baby-K Corruptor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jozi SA Posts: 1,885	have done - will do - doobie doobie doo __________________ Don't wet yourself with excitement.

06-14-2003, 03:02 AM	#132
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Feanor. I think something very important in terms of cultural identity is not forgetting where you, or your ancestors come from. At least, it's important to me! I may have been born in America, but I will never forget that my great-grandfather came from Lithuania, and that my other great(or more greats)-grandparents are from Russia and Ireland. That's all part of my heritage and cultural identity. To me America is a place that was safe for my antecendants, and happens to be where I was born. I'm not exactly proud to be American--I am more grateful to America for being there and relatively accepting of immigrants, and having opportunities, so that I could be born and where I am today. It is a matter of gratitude rather than pride. I feel no connection at all to those who fought in the revolution and wrote the constitution. But that cultural identity is not, to me, Nationalism. Nationalism leans more, at least in the way I know it as, towards the superiority of culture, etc. And even if not, well, what matters to me is cultural identity, and being a part of that. Not necessarily pride, but at least acknowledgement. Furthermore, a country is not a cause I would die for. There are certainly many things I WOULD die for, and more specific causes, but if the only reason it seems that someone wants me to fight is "for America," well, that's not good enough. Given a good enough cause and I'll give my life, but, though "America" has done so much for me, and I'm willing to give back, my life is a different matter. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! Last edited by Eruviel Greenleaf : 06-14-2003 at 03:04 AM.

06-14-2003, 11:12 AM	#133
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I find cultural heritage confusing. I can't identifiy with it too much. I am half Armenian, and I know my granparents immigrated because of the Turkish masacres in the early 1900's. Both ladies (mom and "Nonny") have told me stories of Turkish atrocities and women getting their breasts sliced off. (that was ther most common story! ) Yet, I do not get a surge of anger when thinking of, or talking to Turks. That was then, this is now.... (and I'm American! ) Everything's different! (or is it? they say you learn from the past, but that can get weird! ) I ID with being American. I love my country! (and I expect others to feel the same about their countries, no super big "rah rah" deal, just a good sense of belonging). The pride I feel when an American flag is unfurled is simply innocent pleasure. I'm not on the same field with the Rush song lyrics. When countries go to war, there are usually complex, underlying reasons. I do not feel guilty for my flag "pride"! (IMO) It's one of life's simple pleasures! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

06-14-2003, 12:36 PM	#134
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I feel the same way Lizra. My ancestors came from a bunch of countries. I have no ties to those countries. I really don't care if Northern Ireland is part of Britain or part of Ireland. Why should I? I don't live there. It's not MY home. America is my home and I am AMERICAN. If people have more of a tie to where their ancestors came from and care more about those countries - then they should go back to those countries. And yes I do think a country is worth dying for - it's MY country. It's my home. If it is under attack - I will die for it and die for the freedoms we enjoy. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-14-2003 at 12:39 PM.

06-14-2003, 01:06 PM	#135
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I just read that it was on this day in 1777 that America adopted its particular "coloured rag" as its flag. So happy birthday to the Stars and Stripes __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

06-14-2003, 02:03 PM	#137
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	When my mother came to the US, she changed her citizenship right away. She was very proud to be an American. But she never forgot her own heritage and tried to instill that in me. My aunt came over a year afterward, but she did not change her citizenship for many years. She said, just in case she decided to go back. But she never did.

06-14-2003, 09:26 PM	#138
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Where is your mom from? ( besides Valinor) __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-14-2003, 10:29 PM	#139
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	France, I believe (not sure though). __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-15-2003, 03:51 AM	#140
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Hmm, I don't think I said what I meant too before about dying for my country. What I meant was, yes, if the country was clearly very much under attack (like, people actually invading our land, crossing onto our borders, or at least sending bombs over or something), yes, I would gladly fight for the country. (Am recalling, though, something said by Gen. Patton: (paraphrased) "it's not about dying for your country, it's about making the other sons of ***** die for theirs.") However, in a war, like, say Iraq, there's no way in any of the Hells I'd go fight for that. I won't fight for imperialism, I fight against it. I will fight for freedom from oppression, etc, but in any event I would prefer to "fight" in ways besides violence. Violence only begets violence, and although I am not idealistic enough to believe we can stop war and violence, etc, I think I can do something to lessen it, or at least try. Um, something like that. This reminds me of learning about the Americans who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War (which was rather against the law for them). I would have gone to fight there, with the Lincoln Brigade. Just a note. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

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