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#1 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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The point is that you don't HAVE arguments, Coffeehouse - you just state your opinions as if they are incontestable fact, and when people rightly question the validity of your statements, you say that they don't "get it".
I'd like to hear your thoughts on my observations on science. And I think a woman has the right to choose - she can choose to not have sex if she doesn't want to risk getting pregnant. Rape is a special case - the VAST majority of abortions are from consensual sex. And abortion is NOT only about the woman's body - there's also the baby's body, as well as the man who was involved (why do we hear so little about him?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#2 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 2,145
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Quote:
But save me distortions on what I've written, it makes for a poor strategy.
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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#3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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So, would you support abortion as a possibility in the case of rape?
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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#4 |
Fair Dinkum
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,319
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Currently, in my state of Victoria, a bill is waiting to be passed through the upper house of Parliament. It essentially decriminalises abortion (for which no one has been prosecuted for over 20 years), but surprisingly that is not the most controversial issue. There is a huge fuss about one of the provisions, which states that a doctor with a moral objection to performing abortions must refer the patient to someone who doesn't share that objection. So, there is much debate as to whether this constitutes a violation of the freedom to conscience. Critics of the provision say that it makes someone with a moral objection complicit in an action they find abhorrent, like someone opposed to torture being forced to send the torturee (I think I made that word up) to someone else, knowing the consequences.
What do you guys think? Personally, I'm pro-choice, but I think the provision needs to be changed, if not removed. I agree that it does undermine the freedom of conscience. (I also feel that the bill is less likely to be passed with that provision in force, but I don't want to discuss the issue of abortion per se right now). Last edited by Linaewen : 09-25-2008 at 10:59 AM. |
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#5 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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I can see both sides on that - it's similar to the controversy here in the US a while back that Walgreen's pharmacists don't have to dispense contraceptives to patients if they have moral objections.
And although I can see both sides, mostly I disagree with this, and here's why. It is not the place of the doctor (or pharmacist) to make moral judgments for the patient. If something is legal, and a patient goes to a doctor/pharmacist requesting a legal procedure, then they have the right to receive that service. It's not any different in my mind to me having to sell cigarettes at Walgreens - I have a moral objection to people smoking (especially around children, or while pregnant). I don't have the right to refuse the sale of cigarettes.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian Last edited by Curufin : 09-25-2008 at 11:05 AM. |
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#6 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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I think the provision is not a bad one. I can see the conflict for the doctors, but it also (IMO) avoids another possible moral conflict. If the patient has her mind made up to have an abortion, what would any doctor prefer: That the patient is referred to someone capable or that she goes looking on her own for someone less qualified but more willing to do the abortion where she might end up damaging her health, and instead of one victim you might have two? That's not going to sit lightly on anyone's [Hippocratic] oath either.
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We are not things. |
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#7 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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#8 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Quote:
I realise I misspelt the good man's name in my previous post, will edit.
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We are not things. |
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#9 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 09-25-2008 at 01:42 PM. |
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#10 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Along side the Emperor of France.
Posts: 110
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Murder...Morally Wrong and why...
Rape or no rape, love or no love...the cell becomes a human. it is ALIVE. all life if precious, no matter the state it is in. I wonder...do you all know that where I live women are aloud to have abortions when their child is 8 months?!!? CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS IS GOING ON? Even a five month old baby has a chance at life. Abortion is morally wrong and is murder. It also affects the women. Women go into depression and guilt for YEARS. Help save a life and please help stop the Massacre of Abortion.
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#11 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Along side the Emperor of France.
Posts: 110
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My Own Lines
can i not give my opinion? maybe it is a subject worth debating. why start a thread without thinking people with have strong feelings. It would be extremely wrong of me NOT to express an opinion on something that IS NOT RIGHT.
....plus I've had one of my own, and its something I want all girls to avoid... |
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#12 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Along side the Emperor of France.
Posts: 110
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What is your opinion on this?
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#13 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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If you'd read any of this thread at all, you would know my opinion on abortion.
![]() I am proud to say that I am 100% pro-choice.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#14 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Along side the Emperor of France.
Posts: 110
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Reasons? What do you think about the children being aborted 8 months?
Would you kill an 8 month out of the womb too? |
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#15 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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![]() Reasons? Let me state them before you do, make it easier on you, okay? I'm a horrible heathen baby killer and I'm going straight to hell. ![]() Really - would you even listen if I gave my true reasons?
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#16 | |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#17 | |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
EAR, I'm going to try to be nice here, as I think you're obviously pretty young. Posts like this aren't really appropriate in debate threads. You're coming across more like a crusader than a debater, and using the words and caps, etc. is going to make people angry. People don't necessarily agree with you, and have good reasons for not agreeing with you. Having passion is a good thing, but please try to tone it down a bit before you start a flame war? *bites tongue before she says more*
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#18 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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It is not right to you.
And I never said you couldn't express your opinion. Just knock off the caps and the exclamation points, and try to be reasonable about it!
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#19 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Along side the Emperor of France.
Posts: 110
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My own abortion
I would really. Remember, I've had an abortion. She was 4 months.
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#20 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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And I'm sorry - because abortion is a tragedy. I don't think anyone on either side of the debate would argue that it isn't. I hope you got the support you needed and are coping alright.
I'm pro-choice because I don't think it's the place of the government to intrude on such a personal and private matter. The government should not be telling people when to have babies, or when not to have babies. The perfect solution would, of course, be a sex-education program that makes abortion a moot point - a program that teaches children both the dangers of sex as well as the best ways at preventing pregnancy if they choose to be sexually active. Not abstinence only - but a comprehensive sex-ed program that covers all ends. But as long as the GOP refuses to do this, their stand against both abortion and birth control is unconscionable. You can't have one or the other. You can't tell kids that they can't have abortions, but not teach them how to prevent pregnancy. It's unfair in a myriad of ways.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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