North American Relations

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i still say it's funny

at our college, hundreds of posters have appeared, and it's a picture of Bush,
with the slogan "Wanted!! For Crimes Against Humanity and the World"

yeah - while your college remains silent against the hundreds of thousands killed under Hussein and in the Sudan. Typical left wing crap and hypocracy. If World War II was happening today - you would have Roosevelt's face up there instead - I'm sure.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Okay, this Hour has 22 Minutes is completely hilarious, and maaaaaybe in context I miiiiiiight find that funny, but out of context it definitely seems odd.


Any non-embarassing Canadian politicians you guys care to talk about? Or we could shift to another country...

Sorry Nurvigiel - but it wasn't the first time she's done things like that or made outrageoous public comments. I hoever don't blame Canada for her actions. I saw the "Question to the Prime Minister" after the event and many in parliament were outraged and saying how the US and Canada have been strong allies and it's people like her that is throwing our friendship into jeopardy.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

yeah - while your college remains silent against the hundreds of thousands killed under Hussein and in the Sudan. Typical left wing crap and hypocracy. If World War II was happening today - you would have Roosevelt's face up there instead - I'm sure.

obviously no-one condones what has happened in iraq, or what is happening in sudan, but i dont think there are many bush-riendly students in britain, thats for sure, and i am sure the poster was just a bit of light-hearted humour - it certainly gave me a chuckle on my way out for a cigarette, and

while your college remains silent

?????? the staff of the college can hadly be blamed for something that a random student put up, can they?

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Sorry Nurvigiel - but it wasn't the first time she's done things like that or made outrageoous public comments. I hoever don't blame Canada for her actions. I saw the "Question to the Prime Minister" after the event and many in parliament were outraged and saying how the US and Canada have been strong allies and it's people like her that is throwing our friendship into jeopardy.

I don't know anything about Parrish specifically.

I'm not going to let that throw our friendship into jeopardy (though it must give Americans the irrits getting bashed sometimes).

So.... good Canadian politicians. At the moment I can only think of Paul Martin, our current Prime Minister. And he was involved with the awful Sponsorship Scandal in Québec. Aside from that, there's a lot of good things to say about him. He was a good Finance Minister (minus scandal ), and he's very intelligent.
EDIT: Okay, two good things.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

obviously no-one condones what has happened in iraq, or what is happening in sudan, but i dont think there are many bush-riendly students in britain, thats for sure, and i am sure the poster was just a bit of light-hearted humour - it certainly gave me a chuckle on my way out for a cigarette, and ??????

Yeah - sort of like those ridiculous slogans like "no blood for oil". Or the American flag painted with the Nazi symbol.

the staff of the college can hadly be blamed for something that a random student put up, can they?

Your student body represents the college - and what I was referring to is the hypocracy that they don't bitch and moan about North Korea, Iran, Sudan or others. While idiots portray Bush has hitler and other ridiculous things. Don't you know that sort of waters down the message where peopel can't take it seriously?

Anyway - this is about NORTH AMERICAN relations - not about what goes on at yoru school. Or about how people feel toward bush in Britain.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

a) havent been to school in nearly 3 years slightly old for that
b) bush poster issue seemed related to bush doll issue - i merely made an observational comparison
c) political satire is serious, in that it gets people talking about issues

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I don't know anything about Parrish specifically.

I'm not going to let that throw our friendship into jeopardy (though it must give Americans the irrits getting bashed sometimes).

It sort of depends anymore. We expect it from certain people - like the French. We dealt with it before - the world hated Reagan too and him putting missiles in Europe. Everyone said he would start World War III by mocking the Soviet Union and challenging them. I found online news articles of Canadians marching with Clinton dressed as Hitler because of Bosnia and Kosovo. So- Bush is really in fine company.

So.... good Canadian politicians. At the moment I can only think of Paul Martin, our current Prime Minister. And he was involved with the awful Sponsorship Scandal in Québec. Aside from that, there's a lot of good things to say about him. He was a good Finance Minister (minus scandal ), and he's very intelligent.

Paul Martin seems good for Canadian-American relations. Thank the heavens that Chretian is out. he was an asshole (sorry - he was).

[Nurvingiel]

You are, of course, welcome to post in here Chrys. But we do have your "World Politics" thread for extensive N.A-World discussions.

Paul Martin is also leader of a minority government (how cool is that), and though I think he does not personally support gay marriage, he's not trying to interfere with the process of the courts. *cough* Canadian Alliance *cough*

Actually, I don't think the Alliance actually tried to interfere with the courts, but they wanted a law to be passed against it or some such. O Brain Where Art Thou?
I don't think Paul Martin said anything about his personal stance in the issue, but perhaps it doesn't matter. Either way it would cloud the issue. If he's for it, that might draw unfair accusasions of bias (or who knows what else), and if he's against it, his detractors (or the detractors of gay marriage) might use it against him.
With respect to gay marriage the government is putting the Liberal back in Liberal.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

a) havent been to school in nearly 3 years slightly old for that

You didn't say how long ago it was or anything. And 3 years ago - that was even BEFORE the Iraq war. But anyway - Bush is OUR preisdent not the worlds. His job is to look after the interests of AMERICANS.

b) bush poster issue seemed related to bush doll issue - i merely made an observational comparison

That's good = moving on then.

c) political satire is serious, in that it gets people talking about issues

That isn't satire. A satire is political cartoons - but not when it's used for marches and the people actually believe it - then it becomes ridiculous.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You didn't say how long ago it was or anything. And 3 years ago

yes, i said college, not school, there is aa lot of difference in uk

- that was even BEFORE the Iraq war. But anyway - Bush is OUR preisdent not the worlds. His job is to look after the interests of AMERICANS.

yes, well when one is the president of the most powerful nation in the world, then that person is seen as a sort of world lader globally, one would assume (not me tho - Viva Che)

That's good = moving on then.

good, comparison over


nurv, do you have a link to the canadian gov't's website?
i like to research a topic and then i can post more

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

You are, of course, welcome to post in here Chrys. But we do have your "World Politics" thread for extensive N.A-World discussions.

Hmm - the word boycot comes to mind again.

Paul Martin is also leader of a minority government (how cool is that), and though I think he does not personally support gay marriage, he's not trying to interfere with the process of the courts. *cough* Canadian Alliance *cough*

Actually, I don't think the Alliance actually tried to interfere with the courts, but they wanted a law to be passed against it or some such. O Brain Where Art Thou?
I don't think Paul Martin said anything about his personal stance in the issue, but perhaps it doesn't matter. Either way it would cloud the issue. If he's for it, that might draw unfair accusasions of bias (or who knows what else), and if he's against it, his detractors (or the detractors of gay marriage) might use it against him.
With respect to gay marriage the government is putting the Liberal back in Liberal.

Well isn't gay marriage a job for the legislature? Bush makes comments about Gay marriage - as any president would when the issue comes up. Yes he has declared that he supports an amendment to the consitution declaring that marriage is between a man and woman - but everyone who knows anything - knows that it's not going to happen. It's way to difficult to get a Constitutional Amendment passed - as it should be. Clinton signed into law the "defence of Marriage" act which I think basically protected other states from having to recognize gay marriages from other states. I think that is all we need. I think it's a state issue and let it be worked out there first - as things usually happen. And I don't mean by judges.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It sort of depends anymore. We expect it from certain people - like the French. We dealt with it before - the world hated Reagan too and him putting missiles in Europe. Everyone said he would start World War III by mocking the Soviet Union and challenging them. I found online news articles of Canadians marching with Clinton dressed as Hitler because of Bosnia and Kosovo. So- Bush is really in fine company.

Erroneous Hitler comparisons are one of my pet peeves. I went to an anti-war protest - my sign had a peace sign. Is that not what it's all about? But there's another thread for that. (Iraq II or III isn't dead IIRC, just drifted.)

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Paul Martin seems good for Canadian-American relations. Thank the heavens that Chretian is out. he was an asshole (sorry - he was).

You're not sorry at all! (Just because he once throttled a protester on camera... )

Whatever you think of his politics, it's uncalled for to call him an asshole. I don't agree with Bush's politics, but do I call him an asshole? No I do not.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

yes, i said college, not school, there is aa lot of difference in uk

School is a place to learn - regardless of whether it's a university college, high school, elementary school or whatever - they are all schools. There is no defined difference here when saying school.

yes, well when one is the president of the most powerful nation in the world, then that person is seen as a sort of world lader globally, one would assume (not me tho - Viva Che)

They can think that - but it's not the case. He is the President of the United States -= not of the world. His first responisbilty is to the citizens who vote for him and th Constitution of the United States.

nurv, do you have a link to the canadian gov't's website?
i like to research a topic and then i can post more

Here is the Canadian Parliaments website - http://www.parl.gc.ca/

here is the Canadian Government's website - http://www.canada.gc.ca/

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by nurvi

Whatever you think of his politics, it's uncalled for to call him an asshole. I don't agree with Bush's politics, but do I call him an asshole? No I do not.

and strangely, nor do i

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Here is the Canadian Parliaments website - http://www.parl.gc.ca/

here is the Canadian Government's website - http://www.canada.gc.ca/

thank you for those links, jerseydevil, they will be put to good use

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Erroneous Hitler comparisons are one of my pet peeves. I went to an anti-war protest - my sign had a peace sign. Is that not what it's all about? But there's another thread for that. (Iraq II or III isn't dead IIRC, just drifted.)

I think they should be dead. I can always have them closed if I wish.

You're not sorry at all!

No- really I'm not.

Whatever you think of his politics, it's uncalled for to call him an asshole. I don't agree with Bush's politics, but do I call him an asshole? No I do not.

NO - I put chretian in the same boat as Chirac - and then sink it.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

at our college, hundreds of posters have appeared, and it's a picture of Bush, with the slogan "Wanted!! For Crimes Against Humanity and the World"

I remember seeing posters of him with "wanted for environment crimes". I believe they were made by Greenpeace.

[Nurvingiel]

My previous post was a cross-post with JD and Chrys.

JD, are you threatening to boycott this thread again? As long as it stays on topic, you have no reason to complain. (Defend and debate, yes, but boycott?)

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

yes, well when one is the president of the most powerful nation in the world, then that person is seen as a sort of world lader globally, one would assume (not me tho - Viva Che)

I disagree with the wording, but maybe not the spirit.

I think all powerful nations (basically, all the developping countries) have a moral obligation to non-developping countries (for reasons that would lead to a giant OT post). However, Bush or any American President is not the de facto world leader just because he heads a powerful nation.

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

nurv, do you have a link to the canadian gov't's website?
i like to research a topic and then i can post more

Right on! It's a very nice website, in both English and French. And you'll never guess the url... http://canada.gc.ca/ (You can just type canada.ca into the address bar too. )

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Well isn't gay marriage a job for the legislature? Bush makes comments about Gay marriage - as any president would when the issue comes up. Yes he has declared that he supports an amendment to the consitution declaring that marriage is between a man and woman - but everyone who knows anything - knows that it's not going to happen. It's way to difficult to get a Constitutional Amendment passed - as it should be. Clinton signed into law the "defence of Marriage" act which I think basically protected other states from having to recognize gay marriages from other states. I think that is all we need. I think it's a state issue and let it be worked out there first - as things usually happen. And I don't mean by judges.

IIRC the Supreme Court (our highest court) made a ruling on existing marriage laws based on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Based on that ruling, provinces updated the marriage laws, and gay marriage is legal in BC, Ontario, Québec, the Yukon, and one or two others.
I think the federal ruling found the provincial laws to be against the Charter, and therefore must be updated. The Charter of Rights is a higher law than provincial law, and ensures that the rights of all Canadians are protected.

I love the Charter.

EDIT: Just to note in case this already wasn't apprent to people, that the way federal law and provincial/state law interacts is quite different between Canada and the USA. Yet another reason that we are not the "51st state". But that's best saved for another day.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

I found this interesting.

[Nurvingiel]

My previous post was cross-posted with Eärniel and Chrys. Aaa! Too many peeeeeople!

Erm anyway, yes, Adrienne Clarkson is an interesting person. I wonder what she got the Order of Canada for? (It's similar to being made a knight or dame.) That was mentioned at the end of her bio.

I had no idea she was 66, I thought she was younger. IIRC Paul Martin is 65, and our esteemed former Prime Minister *glares at JD* Jean Chrétien is also 65. I have no idea what that implies. Random observation.