A Question on Balrogs - Page 7

BeardofPants · 07-08-2002, 08:32 AM

I think it was a desperately bored hausfrau out for a bit of attention from that wily old goat, Gandalf. But the real question is: did it have peaches?

Blackheart · 07-08-2002, 10:46 AM

Well, here I must insert a disclaimer. Anything that follows is total hogwash.

All Balrogs were male because as we all know Tolkien was obviously a sexist pig. I mean just look, no evil female anti-heros either!

Whine whine whine, blah blah nag nag- insert sufficiently liberal misandranistic rant here- whine.

Although... now that I think about it, the Balrog WAS carrying a whip....

Starr Polish · 07-08-2002, 01:39 PM

Actually, the Ainur had no gender, but they took on the characteristic of one or the other.

Blackheart · 07-08-2002, 01:52 PM

Err... No, I think you've got that backwards...

They had Gender, but no sex...

err...wait that's not what I'm trying to say... It's quite likely they had sex, reference Melkor's desire for Luthien...

They had no biologically determined sex, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say...

Err.. what's the PC word... Orientation...? Gender Orientation? some such crap..

Oh screw it. Some of them were masculine, and some were feminine from the time they entered Arda. They weren't limited to those forms, however they showed a definate preference. Which implies gender in my rulebook, which is the only on that counts.

Elvellon · 07-08-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Actually, the Ainur had no gender, but they took on the characteristic of one or the other.

No, they hadn’t a physical gender. Yet, in the mind of Eru, each was male or female since the beginning, it was not a matter of later choice.

Radagast The Brown · 07-08-2002, 04:19 PM

I agree. It's written in the sil.

Christiana · 07-10-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
He finally decided that there were "(say) three or at most seven of them" altogether.

dont tell that 2 the bree to moria rpg guys

also:

Quote:

The most terrible of the Maiar spirits who became the servants of Melkor were those who were transformed into demons....Huge and hulking,the Balrogs were manlike demons withstreaming manes of fire and nostrils that breathed flame.They seemed to movewithin clouds of black shadows and their limbs had the coiling power of serpents.

and:

Quote:

...the Balrogs,who were once bright spitits of fire, as fair as Arien who guides theSun,but were twisted into demonforms by hatred and wrath.

Wayfarer · 07-12-2002, 05:50 PM

I would like to comment on the affinity of balrogs for fire and shadow, and ainur in general for thier elements.

I believe that it is the result of thier respective parts in the music. The silmarillion points out that, for example, melkor's dischord created Ice and Fire, or rather, swelled them to dangerous levels.

There are indications that each ainu was drawn to the physical manifestations of the part they had had in the music. Each was in part responsible for the shape of things, and so each would naturally have power over and affinity for that part of creation which they had a hand in.

Make sense?

Radagast The Brown · 07-13-2002, 02:49 AM

I don't think so. Melkor was stronger then the others before the world. it's witten too in the Silmarilion.

Llark silverwolf · 08-06-2002, 12:52 AM

i think balrogs do have wings but not sure either

Celandine · 08-06-2002, 01:33 AM

I think Balrogs do have wings, but they cannot fly with them.

Dolenloteiel · 08-08-2002, 04:02 PM

It's been awhile since I read the books,but in the movie it looks like they have firey wings. If the wings were purely for deco, then thats why the Balrog fell. Look it up!!

BeardofPants · 08-08-2002, 06:10 PM

Well yes, but this isn't the movie forum is it?

HobbitChick88 · 08-08-2002, 06:31 PM

I think they have wings, because in FOTR it says something about their wings spreading from wall to wall or something. Although, that could be figurative.

cassiopeia · 08-09-2002, 05:24 AM

If you read the passage in the FOTR about the balrog, I believe they are metaphorical. But I wonder the balrog got to Moria after the breaking of Thangorodrim. Maybe he skipped.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 08-09-2002, 11:33 AM

Ok, this like every other "Balrog Wings" debate has been eshausted. I don't think there is anything new we can add to this discussion. Time to move on. Closing.

07-08-2002, 08:32 AM	#121
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I think it was a desperately bored hausfrau out for a bit of attention from that wily old goat, Gandalf. But the real question is: did it have peaches? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

07-08-2002, 10:46 AM	#122
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Well, here I must insert a disclaimer. Anything that follows is total hogwash. All Balrogs were male because as we all know Tolkien was obviously a sexist pig. I mean just look, no evil female anti-heros either! Whine whine whine, blah blah nag nag- insert sufficiently liberal misandranistic rant here- whine. Although... now that I think about it, the Balrog WAS carrying a whip.... __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

07-08-2002, 01:39 PM	#123
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Actually, the Ainur had no gender, but they took on the characteristic of one or the other. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

07-08-2002, 01:52 PM	#124
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Err... No, I think you've got that backwards... They had Gender, but no sex... err...wait that's not what I'm trying to say... It's quite likely they had sex, reference Melkor's desire for Luthien... They had no biologically determined sex, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say... Err.. what's the PC word... Orientation...? Gender Orientation? some such crap.. Oh screw it. Some of them were masculine, and some were feminine from the time they entered Arda. They weren't limited to those forms, however they showed a definate preference. Which implies gender in my rulebook, which is the only on that counts. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

07-08-2002, 04:19 PM	#126
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I agree. It's written in the sil. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

07-12-2002, 05:50 PM	#128
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I would like to comment on the affinity of balrogs for fire and shadow, and ainur in general for thier elements. I believe that it is the result of thier respective parts in the music. The silmarillion points out that, for example, melkor's dischord created Ice and Fire, or rather, swelled them to dangerous levels. There are indications that each ainu was drawn to the physical manifestations of the part they had had in the music. Each was in part responsible for the shape of things, and so each would naturally have power over and affinity for that part of creation which they had a hand in. Make sense? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

07-13-2002, 02:49 AM	#129
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I don't think so. Melkor was stronger then the others before the world. it's witten too in the Silmarilion. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-06-2002, 12:52 AM	#130
Llark silverwolf Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: seattle Posts: 10	i think balrogs do have wings but not sure either

08-06-2002, 01:33 AM	#131
Celandine Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 168	I think Balrogs do have wings, but they cannot fly with them.

08-08-2002, 04:02 PM	#132
Dolenloteiel I elenfea Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Somewhere in the chaos between the first and second ages! (Actually, CO) Posts: 556	It's been awhile since I read the books,but in the movie it looks like they have firey wings. If the wings were purely for deco, then thats why the Balrog fell. Look it up!! __________________ "Middle Earth is a real place. And it is New Zealand." Sir Ian McKellan **************************** QUESTION AUTHORITY Ask me anything ************************** "I have not failed, I've only found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison ************************** Visit Tolkien RP Site! Need members, RP all three Ages! (UNDER CONSTRUCTION) http://elvellon.suddenlaunch2.com **************************** "Yay, I can hear the voices in my head again!

08-08-2002, 06:10 PM	#133
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Well yes, but this isn't the movie forum is it? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-08-2002, 06:31 PM	#134
HobbitChick88 Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sweet Home Alabama Posts: 237	I think they have wings, because in FOTR it says something about their wings spreading from wall to wall or something. Although, that could be figurative. __________________ "Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars..." ~The Hobbit "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whose you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." -Joshua 24:15 Step follows step, Hope follows courage. Set your face toward danger Set your heart on victory! "Where is Elizabeth?" "She's safe, just like I promised. She's all set to marry Norrington just like she promised, and you get to die for her just like you promised. So we're all men of our word, really....except for Elizabeth who is, in fact, a woman." ~Will Turner and Jack Sparrow, POTC fROdO LIVeS!!!!

08-09-2002, 05:24 AM	#135
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	If you read the passage in the FOTR about the balrog, I believe they are metaphorical. But I wonder the balrog got to Moria after the breaking of Thangorodrim. Maybe he skipped. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

08-09-2002, 11:33 AM	#136
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Ok, this like every other "Balrog Wings" debate has been eshausted. I don't think there is anything new we can add to this discussion. Time to move on. Closing.

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