05-04-2005, 05:44 PM | #121 | ||||
Lady of Letters
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The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies... What theme or 'single binding thread' does this illuminate? It's a vague nod to the 'chosen one' motif, but that's not a surprise in any novel with a single hero. It doesn't say why Harry is chosen, what the purpose of the battle is, why one of them must die... You could easily read the books without it as it now stands. Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-06-2005, 11:44 AM | #122 |
Elf Lord
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Sorry to be so long in replying, Sun-Star, work et alia have limited my Mooting.
I have read quite a bit of criticism over the decades. Deconstructive techniques are but one form. We can discuss the various general techniques at your pleasure. It is not that criticism is always wrong in any technique or not useful in its own peculiar fashion (depending on the assumptions), but rather my conviction that literature and poetry are meant to be enjoyed and may well be challenging or upsetting or conventional or otherwise. I think the work itself should be interacted with as whole as finished and presented by the author. That is what elicits response. And that response then becomes reflective and may move to a critical approach out of appreciation or revulsion or challenge to the reader's accepted thought patterns. You may or may not have read Dorothy L. Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER (I cannot recall at present). I think it an excellent work of criticism in the most distant approach. Yes, I know that it to be an explanation of the Trinity by analogy, but it throws quite considerable light on the author as vehicle through which comes the finished product. And I came to this self-criticism so to call it by a profound appreciation of the author's corpus. Fascinatingly, the detective novels and the theological writings and the plays and poetry she authored became more intriguing. I am still profitabley re-reading her works each time. Now, as regards the prophecy in the HP series, I have this constant niggling suspicion in the back of my mind that what we have taken to be a sole reference to either Harry or Voldemort "the hand of the other" by which one or the other must die, may, in fact, refer to Wormtail's silver hand. Purely speculative, of course, but if read that way it casts a whole new possibility onto the prophecy. And, since we have in the Arthurian corpus the response of the others to the nascent King, and their reactions drive the story, I think it quite possible that Wormtail's response to either SERVE Voldemort or Harry in the end a major plot mechanism capable of an unexpected and yet consistent plot twist. (All of this a critical assessment in which only the tale is involved. I really do not think that knowing any details of JKR's life will answer that question. It may be fun, once the series is completed to see if any correlations exists, but I am predilected to think not. That was what JRRT said about his own materials, as you recall. And Lewis as well.) Charles Williams also offers some insights worth pondering in his reviews for the TIMES of the then current material (circa 1930's and early '40's). This is a review of criticism as a tool to which I am alluding within the context of the reviews individually. See, I am ecletic critically. There may be something to Freudian criticism but not nearly so much as commonly supposed. I usually read that for entertainment or in periods of hypotension . Then to move onto the allegations of most critics that THEY have achieved the Elysian field and Golden Mean in this life and are THEREFORE capable of impartial assessment whilst employing every vagrant impulse of which they assess the author(s) without recognizing their own "influences" is always good for the contemplation of humility (O would some powe the Giftie gi'e us...)!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 05-06-2005 at 12:15 PM. Reason: speeling and clarification |
05-09-2005, 01:52 PM | #123 | |||
Lady of Letters
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 05-09-2005 at 01:54 PM. |
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05-09-2005, 02:53 PM | #124 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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05-09-2005, 03:14 PM | #125 |
Lady of Letters
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Some do both: Lewis and Tolkien are good examples, as I said.
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05-09-2005, 09:20 PM | #126 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...sigh...
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05-10-2005, 05:05 AM | #127 | |||
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I like the prophecy because it is different from others by how we have seen it so far - adding to the backstory. I think as more information is revealed, it will advance the plot. Also, I think having it in his possession would have given Voldemort an edge, but Neville put a stop to that when he destroyed it. Poor old Harry. Book six isn't going to have a happy start; he's in for a rough summer. But he does have one consolation: when he turns sixteen, he'll be allowed to use magic outside of school. He can't just use it willy nilly (since that would violate the Statute of Secrecy), but he can use it on Petunia, Vernon, and Dudley, because they already know he's a wizard. He can also use it to speedily accomplish household chores, and generally make life a little more pleasant. I'm really interested to see how that plays out. Mwahaha...
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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05-10-2005, 10:24 AM | #128 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I thought he'd prefer to go live with Sirus. Looking forward to the new book in June (preordered in Jan )
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-13-2005, 03:30 PM | #129 |
Enting
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I think it will be fudge,
I remember somewhere (don't know where ) JK saying therwe would be a new minister for magic |
05-13-2005, 04:28 PM | #130 | |||
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I think there will be a new Minister of Magic too. Fudge might not die, but he sure looks like a moron since he denied that Voldemort returned.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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05-13-2005, 04:46 PM | #131 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Since someone will die, she have said that, or is it just a rumour? I hope Fudge is the one saying goodbye. He turned so completely from the nice, a bit clumsy man I had got the impression of in OotP so I don't like him a bit anymore.
I thought it was totaly clear that Harry would go to Sirius and live, but I might have got the wrong impression.
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05-13-2005, 07:50 PM | #132 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I think so, I had to get the books out of the order they were written, from the library, one at a time....so I'm not sure but I think I read it....confused ? me too.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-13-2005, 09:18 PM | #133 | |||
Long lost mooter
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Uh, I don't think it should be a spoiler at this point, but I'll put it in gray just in case (do not look if you haven't read book 5!):
Harry can't go live with Sirius.
Furthermore, in book three
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05-13-2005, 09:41 PM | #134 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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RATZ, I can't see anything except a grey line and block. How do you do that???
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-14-2005, 05:40 AM | #135 | ||
Elf Lord
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05-14-2005, 06:46 AM | #136 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Yes. Dumbeldore has made a strong protection spell on the Dursley house, making Voldemort uncapable of touching Harry there. The strongest reason harry can't/couldn't live with Sirius, I think.
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05-14-2005, 02:59 PM | #137 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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**Just a news note** JKR will be reading from the new book (from a castle in Scotland) in July....a couple dozen kids are going to be chosen to join her. Lucky youngsters.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-15-2005, 12:55 PM | #138 | |
Long lost mooter
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06-13-2005, 12:59 AM | #139 | |
King of Nargothrond
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |
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06-13-2005, 01:06 AM | #140 |
King of Nargothrond
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..I justt read a theory...what if the Half Blood Prince is Snape?!?!?
And I thought...Krum is in these darn books...he's gotta serve a purpose...maybe he's the prince?
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |