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04-21-2006, 03:44 PM | #121 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
But I know: it is just conjecture. Your way to interpret it is as good as mine . Quote:
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04-22-2006, 11:01 AM | #122 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 306
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Thank you to Faramir, Udukhaturz, and Gordis for your kind words.
I agree that questions regarding the nature of the Nazguls’ existence are especially difficult, if not impossible, to answer. We have Tolkien’s changing view, the clearly different (without the differences being clearly defined) states between ringless and ringholding Nazgul, and also, as Udukhaturz very nicely pointed out, the fact that the Nazgul are unique beings with no real parallels in earlier myth. Maybe this is part of what makes them so interesting. Quote:
Concerning the Lingerers, do you remember in which book Tolkien discusses them? I would like to look at that. |
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04-22-2006, 06:29 PM | #123 | |||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is the quote about the Lingerers - faded invisible Elves, who still dwell in ME, but mostly belong to the World of Shadow: Quote:
Last edited by Gordis : 04-22-2006 at 06:41 PM. |
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04-23-2006, 10:26 AM | #124 | |||
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, while reading the recent posts on this thread, I came across some evidence that the Witch King wasn’t entirely successful in maintaining the illusion of himself as a living Man (assuming he intended this). Quote:
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04-23-2006, 06:33 PM | #125 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
Quote:
First of all, these were swords from the war in TA 1409 - fairly early in Angmar's history. By that time, the Dunedain couldn't yet become enlightened by the Witch-King VERY long life span. So perhaps the blades were enspelled against the King of Angmar personally - not against a nazgul. It could have been done without knowledge of his nature. Or, alternatively, the Dunedain of Cardolan may have learned about the WK's true nature - for example from the Elves of Rivendell, besieged by Angmar just prior to this war. It is interesting what this siege was like... Most likely Elrond had his defences made with the help of his Ring - like the flooding Bruinen River and similar ones. Perhaps the WK came and tried to breach them using his Ring? That would have made him obvious to Elrond... So probably Men of Cardolan knew who the Witch-King was. But maybe their knowledge died with them? Or simply the know-how of the blades making was lost? It doesn't seem that anyone had such a blade in the battle of Fornost. |
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06-07-2006, 11:13 AM | #126 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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Everyone, thanks for putting your thoughts down because as i read lotr again, it makes the book all that more interesting. Anyways, i have a question: when Sauron got the 16 rings, did he give them out all at once, or over a period of time?
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06-07-2006, 07:02 PM | #127 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Jammy, if you want to ask a new question, you should make a new thread.
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06-07-2006, 07:32 PM | #128 |
Elf Lord
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why?
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06-08-2006, 03:45 AM | #129 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Because.
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06-15-2006, 10:21 AM | #130 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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still waiting...
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06-15-2006, 02:41 PM | #131 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Give us your own inside on Sauron's rings distribution. |
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06-15-2006, 02:54 PM | #132 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
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Quote:
(Unfortunately I have not read most of this thread so I can not add more to this discussion.)
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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06-15-2006, 03:24 PM | #133 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
So, I think, it's answering jammi567 question. Case closed. |
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06-15-2006, 03:56 PM | #134 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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Quote:
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06-15-2006, 05:06 PM | #135 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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And Jammi, nobody knows whether the Rings were distributed all at once (highly unlikely), or over a period of time. Sauron obtained the Rings in SA 1697. Ringwraiths (all the 9? or some of them? or the first one?) appeared in SA 2251. That is all we know. |
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06-15-2006, 07:26 PM | #136 |
Elf Lord
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remember that the nine were not made by Sauron,
nor were they inherently of themselves evil .... it was only the creation and design and nature of the one that ensnared them .. even then it took many many years for the ring bearers to become enslaved ... and this with sauron at his potent heights ... truly, how much possesion or control did he have on the nine after his meeting with Elendil and sons the 'finger-slicing' franchise .... ???? when he became a wandering dis-embodied spirit? Who here, thus doubts that the Nazgul effectively became "free " for this time? Last edited by Butterbeer : 06-15-2006 at 07:28 PM. |
07-07-2006, 07:06 PM | #137 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
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in my personal opinion, i believe Sauron had to be focusing on them to be able to control them. so when they were serching for the Ring aroung Anduin, he was throrughly serching there because that's where he know it last was. once he realized it wasn't there, and gollum said 'shire' and 'baggins', he let the nazgul have their free will back because a) he had other things to focus on, and b) they're his most loyal servents, and so should be able to find it quickly and efficiantly. of course, once they got their will back, they also recovered their former fears etc. i think this is the best senario with the conflicting evidence we've got, both from UT and letters, as well as lotr itself. what do you guys think.
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07-08-2006, 11:26 AM | #138 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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I'm going to post this post so it's at the top of the list, and that so people notice it again.
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07-09-2006, 10:20 AM | #139 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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common people, this is/was a very intersting thread that deserves to have the amount of popsting that happened on this thread here.
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07-09-2006, 04:25 PM | #140 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
But I would like the discussion concentrate on the main topic: When did Sauron take the Rings from the Nine and how was it done? Have they surrendered their rings willingly (as Martinez supposes?) or unwillingly? What about the relations between the WK in Carn Dum and the Necromancer in Mirkwood? |
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