09-26-2002, 05:40 AM | #121 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
Agburanar, if you read about the making of the movies, you'll discover that the screenwriters read the books countless times before and during the production. Phillipa said in an interview that there wasn't a single day during a three year period that she wasn't reading the books. And Ian McKellan has mentioned numerous times that the book was used often to settle disputes about what the dialogue should be.
|
09-26-2002, 04:22 PM | #122 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
I don't care whether people read the book or not. If they just want to watch and pay the ticket so the final two installments are well funded, then great. If one comes to this forum to discuss only the movie and you run into people who prefer the book one shouldn't be suprised since the forum was created for the "book folks." I suspect that it isn't interesting to some whether or not Balrogs have wings or where Tom Bombadil comes from but I find it amusing myself.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
09-26-2002, 09:11 PM | #123 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
If a lover of the books comes to this forum to criticize the movie and you run into people who disagree, one shouldn't be surprised since this place is called "Lord of the Rings Movies."
|
09-26-2002, 10:48 PM | #124 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
How's surprised? We've been coming in droves since Dec 19, 2001.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-06-2002, 03:30 AM | #125 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 26
|
The original movies
When I first read this thread, I was in total agreement with the original message. I did believe that one bad side effect of the film would be 'second rate Tolkien fans.' My brother is one such fan: his rediculous ideas, based on the movie and a quick reading of the books soon after, have annoyed me to no end. However, in a moment of self-analysis, I realized I myself am merely a second-rate Tolkien fan. I grew up watching the original cartoons by Rankin-Bass, and Bakshi, (spelling?). When I was eight, I saw an old copy of the Hobbit, and recognizing the title, began to read. Even though the book was immensely different, I had a rough idea of where the plot was going, and so I kept reading. I made my way through all of the books in the next year. I imagine the only reason I picked up that book was because I knew the title from the cartoon. So, I think I will be a little easier on these second-rate fans in the future. Even my idiot-boy brother.
theworkhorse |
07-25-2003, 05:04 PM | #126 | |
DĂșnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
|
Quote:
__________________
"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
|
07-27-2003, 12:07 AM | #127 | |
Canadian Guy.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The true North Strong and Free
Posts: 1,513
|
Quote:
__________________
"Canadians are so apathetic, but, what are you gonna do about it" -Glen Foster Wierd Harry Potter quotes the old nintendo duck hunt game Lemmings Swron Random Homer Simpson Quotes |
|
07-27-2003, 05:53 PM | #128 |
Canadian Guy.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The true North Strong and Free
Posts: 1,513
|
also, another one of my friends said the movies sucked because the ring wasnt destroyed. He had no idea there were two more movies, and when i told him he said that Tolkein was stupid for making the story so long. I called him a f*****g moron for saying that, and that he should try reading fo once
__________________
"Canadians are so apathetic, but, what are you gonna do about it" -Glen Foster Wierd Harry Potter quotes the old nintendo duck hunt game Lemmings Swron Random Homer Simpson Quotes |
07-29-2003, 07:43 PM | #129 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: America, Land That I Love!
Posts: 179
|
Thank goodness you set him straight! He probably only said that about Tolkien because he didn't want to look stupid for not knowing about the other two movies. Some people will say stuff just to avoid admitting they made a mistake. Either that or that dude is one lazy fool who doesn't know the first thing about excellent literature.
Sorry if I came off harshly, but I'm angry that anyone would say that Tolkien was stupid! I mean, would he say the same thing about Harry Potter? There are not 3, but 7 books in the series, and each one is turning out longer than the preceding one. GRRR... It makes me mad...
__________________
****************************** "Even if you're going in the right direction, you'll get run over if you just sit there."-- Paraphrase of a quote from some famous guy. |
08-31-2003, 01:37 PM | #130 |
DĂșnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
|
Book fans vs Movie fans
It does warm my heart to see some who only just saw the Fellowship DVD and then saw Two Towers in a theatre want to read the books and learn the true world of Tolkien. Like the youngster Aragorn talks with at Helms Deep...
"They say there is no hope..." 'There is always hope!'
__________________
"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
09-02-2003, 08:24 AM | #131 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
Even if some people never read the books, at least Jackson has exposed Tolkien's story to a larger audience.
|
09-02-2003, 02:52 PM | #132 |
Lady of Westernesse
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!)
Posts: 761
|
I agree. Jackson is inspiring people to read Tolkien, or for me, when FotR came out, inspired me to read the books faster. I was reading FotR when the movies came out, so I don't know whether I'm book-before-movies or movies-before-book.
I was talking to this one little kid who was 8, and he said he was the biggest LotR fan ever. I asked him if he had read the books and he said, "I've only seen the movies." I bet I cracked at least two ribs trying to contain my laughter. But really, it gets quite annoying when I want to have a long conversation on the books, but the person I'm talking to only knows what the movies are like and they act as if they're Lord of the Rings professionals! Another thing that bothers me is that my cousin has only seen the movies (he's going to read his dad's copy of LotR though; about time, too) and he completely ignores how great a character Samwise is and just goes for the best fighter. So, natuarally, he's always running around the house with this blanket on saying, "I'm Aragorn!" or "I'm Gandalf!". It's really nothing, but it just annoys me.
__________________
Yada, yada, yada |
09-03-2003, 08:59 PM | #133 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: America, Land That I Love!
Posts: 179
|
Yeah, I wish the really honest characters would get as much fame as the fighting characters. I mean, I can't speak for everyone of course, but Sam, Frodo, Merry and Pippin are as equally cool as the fighters. Well, I guess the people who have not read the books have to wait to see the hobbits at their best! The sneek peek of the Return of the King on the Two Towers DVD was sooooooooooo cool!!!!!!! I'm definitely excited for this one!
By the way, I like you avatar, durin's bane.
__________________
****************************** "Even if you're going in the right direction, you'll get run over if you just sit there."-- Paraphrase of a quote from some famous guy. |
09-04-2003, 01:05 PM | #134 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Im one of those people who had read the books. THEN saw the movies. THEN reread the books and more Tolkien books (Sil, etc.) BECAUSE i enjoyed the movies so. In many ways I feel sorry for people on either extreme. Either so clueless about Tolkien and unwilling to read anything longer then a comic strip that they continually make themselves look like fools by spouting on about "Tolkien lore" based only on the two movies they have seen OR so fundamentally close minded about "The Word of Tolkien" and so biased against the movies as a rule that they refuse to appreciate a genuinly different art form based on Tolkiens works and they give the movies no chance from the start. Im so glad i came to the movies exactly at the point where I was.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
09-04-2003, 02:26 PM | #135 | |
DĂșnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
|
Quote:
__________________
"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
|
09-08-2003, 04:11 AM | #136 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 221
|
I agree with the majority opinions on this discussion.
When I was watching the FoTR and TTT with people who had not even read the book, it was difficult to explain to them of things in the background and even things that had been omitted from the movies! Examples: 1. Omissions of Gil-Galad, Tom Bombadil and Glorfindal (to name but a few) 2. The character of Arwen having more importance than was warranted. 3. The sense of time in the book compared with the movies 4. Elves coming to Helms Deep when they actually hadn't (in the book. Etc, etc. Even though I consider myself to be a die-hard ME fan, I can understand the cinematic concessions that would be needed to put a book on the scale of LoTR onto the big screen. However, that does not excuse some of the blatant disregard for important facts that Peter Jackson rearraged or left out. This may not bother virgin LoTR fans, but thought should have gone into not alienating the rest of us.
__________________
Durin the Sleepless! |
09-08-2003, 04:38 PM | #137 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2
|
One thing that the movies have done though is that because it has become part of popular culture is that it is viewed as just that. My sister wanted to write about LoTR for her free response for her AP history exam and her teacher told her not to because the AP reviewers don't like students writing about anything that has become popular.
|
09-08-2003, 07:08 PM | #138 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
Durin1's comments in bold.
Omissions of Gil-Galad, Tom Bombadil and Glorfindal (to name but a few) These people have little to do with the main plot of the story. It is very reasonable to expect that they would not be included. The character of Arwen having more importance than was warranted. More importance than was warrented? I think she has been given the importance she deserves. She is going to sacrifice her immortality to be with the man she loves and become Queen of Gondor. I think the movie audience has a right to know who this elf maiden is. The sense of time in the book compared with the movies Time passes more quickly in any movie, be it Gone with the Wind or Lord of the Rings. Elves coming to Helms Deep when they actually hadn't (in the book. I fail to see how this alteration changed the basic theme of Helm's Deep. It was a necessary cinematic concession that worked. Even though I consider myself to be a die-hard ME fan, I can understand the cinematic concessions that would be needed to put a book on the scale of LoTR onto the big screen. However, that does not excuse some of the blatant disregard for important facts that Peter Jackson rearraged or left out. Your comments make it quite clear you don't understand that cinematic concessions had to be made to bring LOTR to the big screen. |
09-09-2003, 04:29 AM | #139 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 221
|
In reply to Black Breathalizer...
You seem to have missed the whole point of what I was trying to get across. I had said that the changes in the movies made it difficult to explain other people who may want to get into Tolkien about the bigger picture of LoTR. I still stand by that. As for your other comments... 1. I did not say that peripheral characters should be included in the movies. I was taking examples of the obvious omissions from the book. However, in terms of Gil-Galad I totally disagree. It would have been nice for a mention of the High King of the Elves at the beginning of the book - nothing more. For a Last Alliance it seems strange that Elrond seemingly leads the Elvish forces when he is not even a King. 2. Arwen. I too love the movies but that still would not make me try and justify the role of Arwen, especially at the Flight to the Ford. And I DO understand that it is important to expand her character in line with the love story between her and Aragorn. Peter Jackson's motive was also that there is a distinct lack of female characters in the books. He wanted his women to play a bigger part in the events. 3. Elves in Helms Deep. Necessary? Who says? The whole idea was ludicrous but still did not make me dislike the movie. But this "concession" has no real basis and could have been left out. 4. Sense of time. We are not talking about such a great and important aspect of the film, but it would have been nice to get a scale of the expanse of ME and that fact that it would have taken days to get anywhere (Gandalf's trip to Gondor at the beginning of FoTR being a prime example). The rule that timescale is quicker in any movie is not the point. You can never compare movies such as LoTR with other smaller scale works. For YOUR information Black Breathalizer, it seems obvious to me that YOU don't understand that not every single "cinematic concession" has to be justified. I am perfectly well aware that concessions would be made, my arguement is that not all those concessions had to be made.
__________________
Durin the Sleepless! |
09-10-2003, 09:50 PM | #140 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
|
Durin1: You seem to have missed the whole point of what I was trying to get across. I had said that the changes in the movies made it difficult to explain other people who may want to get into Tolkien about the bigger picture of LoTR. I still stand by that.
BB: The movies were never designed to "tell the bigger picture" nor should they have been. The moment a screenwriter begins adding details (names, people, places, etc.) that have nothing to do with the central plot, all he does is confuse the audience unnecessarily. There are many things "that would have been nice." Unfortunately, the filmmakers had to focus on what is absolutely necessary to move this plot forward. With three hour running times, they didn't have the luxury of adding "nice" things to the theatrical releases. You will get more of those pieces of cake in the Extended DVDs. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
HP Vs. LoTR | Pytt | Harry Potter | 53 | 01-17-2011 01:33 AM |
Blatant LoTR Copy-Cats | ItalianLegolas | Middle Earth | 81 | 08-13-2010 12:17 AM |
LOTR Discussion: Appendices E and F | Forkbeard | LOTR Discussion Project | 11 | 09-15-2008 06:16 PM |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, parts 2 and 3 | Forkbeard | LOTR Discussion Project | 12 | 12-28-2007 07:10 AM |
Funny LOTR Insults | Haradrim | Middle Earth | 0 | 08-22-2004 01:19 AM |