08-26-2004, 05:57 PM | #121 | |
Elf Lord
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And it's not like you can now seperate the Ring and its power - they're the same... they're the Ring. Like the Nazgul. |
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08-26-2004, 05:59 PM | #122 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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But are the power and the ring one and the same. Cuz I mean unless the ring was a creature but its not. The power inhabits the rign like a home. If I was evil and I lived in my home is my home evil. No. Same thing for the ring.
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08-26-2004, 06:06 PM | #123 |
Elf Lord
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Isn't it? Will you nto call Mordor evil (Sauron)? Will you not call Angband (Morgoth) evil? Or Nan Dungorthab (Ungoliant)? And Dol Guldur? They're all evil, I think, and they're houses of evil creatures (if you call the Ainur cretaures).
And I find that the Ring is not like home of the power; you can leave the home, but can the power leave the Ring? No. |
08-26-2004, 06:11 PM | #124 |
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ah some very good points. I feel like I now have forever been defeated in this matter. (sigh) .............
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08-27-2004, 12:29 AM | #125 |
the Shrike
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Haradrim, don't make me come over there and kick you in the bollocks.
The ring *is* evil because of that sentience that it displays... it might not be a full evolved chimpanzee, but it certainly is a little more than a gold band. It can change sizes, betray the ring-bearer, and use the bearers to attempt to get back "home" to mordor. Nasty lil' blighter betrayed a few people as well.
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08-27-2004, 12:32 AM | #126 |
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but the sentient power that in habits the ring made it change sizes not the ring itself. The ring was just a place holder for evil. And though Mordor was evil that was because Sauron had made it evil. IS there any proof that he made the ring evil and not just put a spirit inside of it. If I were to take a bottle and put evil into it. Evil that had sentients and could do things to manipulate the bottle. Would the bottle be evil. No it wouldnt be.
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08-27-2004, 01:00 AM | #127 |
the Shrike
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*deja vu*
&%^#! Ring. Evil. Gold. Evil. Land. Evil. Morgoth. Evil. Sauron. Evil.
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08-27-2004, 01:26 AM | #128 |
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I agree: Morgoth Evil, Sauron Evil, Mordor Evil, but I dont see how that adds up to ring evil. I mean there is this very thin possibility that the ring isnt evil. If you say that the gold was in fact inhabited by evil like a bottle with evil in it and that the ring was the same way then the ring is not evil but everything else about it is evil.
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08-27-2004, 02:16 AM | #129 |
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If you say that the Ring housed evil and it wasn't evil it self you could say that about Morgoth and Sauron. The evil was in them so they themselves were evil.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 05:10 AM | #130 |
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no becaus they chose to be evil the ring was made a host without its expressed opinion. Therefore ring not evil but Sauron and Morgoth evil. ITs the difference between inanimate objects and animate objects.
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08-27-2004, 05:47 AM | #131 |
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But on numerus occasions Tolkien said that the Ring was trying to get back to Sauron if it wasn't it wouldn't.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 05:50 AM | #132 |
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yes true but wouldnt that be the power inhabiting the ring, like water in a glass, that would try and get back to its master.
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08-27-2004, 05:53 AM | #133 |
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As you are so adamnt that you ar right I will say this as a final thing (for now). All deeds that were done by those who used the Ring were turned to evil which is why Gandalf, Galariel, Aragorn etc. wouldn't take it. Yes the spirit embodying the Ring was the most evil but the ring was marred for it was made in Mordor (a place of evil) and was made by Sauron himself.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 05:57 AM | #134 |
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what, by eru, does its creators alignment and the land it lives in alighnment have to do with anything. Besides the pwoer of the embodying spirt ring that changed the mind of the weilder not the ring.
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08-27-2004, 08:35 AM | #135 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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08-27-2004, 10:33 AM | #136 | |
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08-27-2004, 10:36 AM | #137 |
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Yeah the Ring was made with evil intentions for power and rule over Middle-Earth.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 11:31 PM | #138 |
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okay I will concede for the sake of not seriously ticking people off. I dont think Iwill ever change my mind ( becasue I am too stubborn) and neither will oyu guys. So I suggest that we just shake hands and part on this because Ill never give up and neither will you guys and I dont want this to turn into a histile thread. So good job everyone on your persuasive arguments and good reasoning.
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08-28-2004, 12:16 PM | #139 | |
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08-28-2004, 02:15 PM | #140 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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