10-14-2002, 10:06 AM | #121 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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A lot of reporters, especially from ABC have gone in and interviewed people. One woman came up to an ABC reporter and whispered and begged for something to be done to bring down Hussein. But I think generally the situation is like a massive cult. They have a leader that feeds them propaganda and have no other outlet for receiving news. For instance - they expect Saddam Hussein to get 100% of the vote in the Iraqi elections. In order for anyone to get 100% acceptance something is wrong. Also they showed on the news these 8 year olds dressed in military uniforms and singing "we love you saddam, we will spill our blood for you." over and over again in preparation of the elections. It's just strange - but it's also what Hitler did with his youth group organizations. Quote:
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10-14-2002, 10:10 AM | #122 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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An assassination would be futile, at least in the short term. Saddam's son is next in line and he is worse from what I have read. Also, as far as the Iraqi peoplego, the reprisals would be most brutal. The final configuration after years of turmoil might be an improvement over the current situation, but the cost in human terms would be high. More reasons for a complete regime change by force.
Young men put into harms way? Anyway a sad story. I'm sure many are in for adventure and have a good idea what kind of risks they run. The ones I really worry about are those in it for financial reasons or the ones who are not so sharp and are swayed by marketing. They are usually the first to be killed in action. How many here of service age are willing to go to Iraq in uniform?
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10-14-2002, 10:21 AM | #123 |
Elf Lord
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Air power by itself won't win a thing. Yes you can pound an army to the point of collapse but you still need forces on the ground to bring that collapse about. Plus in 1991 the Iraqi's were adept at hiding military targets in amongst civilians. All a prolonged air campaign gets you is a small but steady trickle of air crew losses, lots of TV footage of bombed hospitals and little that the viewing Western public would see as tangible gains. The West wouldn't lose a war on the battlefield - it could lose it in the sitting rooms of (say) Ohio, though.
Who can say how the Iraqi public would react to the removal of Hussein? Enclaves in the North and South of Iraq hate him with a vengeance. He has executed members of his own family, which speaks volumes of his methods. They certainly turn out all revved up and loyal for the cameras, but who knows how much of that passion is genuine. We could hope for a mass rising against him if he's on the ropes but I don't think we can count on it. Plus I doubt any Western-led force would ever be seen as liberators.
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10-14-2002, 10:52 AM | #124 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We need the support of Arab countries and in particular the Iraqis themselves. I think meeting and supporting the exiled Iraqis is a good start and having them play a key role is extremely important. One thing the US needs to do - and I know I keep saying the US needs to be more isolationist - but if we're going to be a world player and do these type of things then we need to set up programs like the Marshall Plan. The international community needs to go in there and build hospitals, build schools, build roads, etc. We are doing these things in Afganistan - but does the Arab world see anyof it? The US and the west in general has to do a better job of promoting the things we do. The Arab world needs to see, understand and accept that we don't condemn their religion or condemn their culture. We're never going to win over the extremists - but we need to make sure that it is harder for terrorist groups to use proganda against the west as a recruiting tool. We need to show the Arab world the good things we do and we can't just topple Hussein and then leave (yet we can't act like an occupying force). It's a huge balancing act the west will have to do once Hussein is removed. Quote:
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10-14-2002, 09:38 PM | #125 |
Elven Warrior
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"Bush puts world on alert for new wave of al-Qaida attacks "
So now there is going to be a war on two fronts Maybe the war on terroism does not involve an invasion of Iraq after all........but it should involve war against the ACTUAL terrorists |
10-14-2002, 09:44 PM | #126 | |
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10-14-2002, 10:03 PM | #127 | |
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JD this has been stated before..........there is no similarity between WW2 and the present time..........why do you keep referring to it Last edited by osszie : 10-14-2002 at 10:06 PM. |
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10-14-2002, 10:16 PM | #128 | ||
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So we should deal with only one problem at a time? I guess we should hold off on the rebuilding of Afganistan because we're still fighting terrorism. Also - the economy should wait too. Quote:
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10-14-2002, 10:26 PM | #129 | |
Elven Warrior
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So what are the figures for the american people supporting a these two seperate issues?.........you have already claimed that "most" american people feel that both the attack on Iraq and the war against international terrorism can be won. If you feel that there are similarities in this impending conflict and WW2, fine, personally, as I have said in numerous posts on this thread, I see none..........WW2 had physical evidence........this situation has none |
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10-14-2002, 10:40 PM | #130 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I can't remember. It was in our local paper I think. I'll have to look. Quote:
So if there was physical evidence of what Hitler was doing - then why wasn't anything done before he invaded Poland?
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10-14-2002, 10:48 PM | #131 | |
Elven Warrior
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So you are saying that there IS physical proof?.......... I had no idea that there was proof that Saddam buried "a lot of stuff" or that as the inspectors were "going in one door, the equipment is going out the other".......if there is that proof then why the need for another investigation, surely any invasion is justified Hitler was not stopped from invading Poland for exactly the same reasons that Saddam was not stopped from invading kuwait |
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10-14-2002, 11:03 PM | #132 | |
the Shrike
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10-14-2002, 11:05 PM | #133 | |
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10-14-2002, 11:45 PM | #134 |
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I don't think any amount of proof would be enough for you guys unless there was an ICBM with a huge arrow pointing at it - saying here is the nuclear weapon.
Try this video and tell me if it works for you - Nightline, 10/9/02: It isn't easy being a weapons inspector in Iraq.
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10-15-2002, 12:12 AM | #135 | |
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10-15-2002, 12:16 AM | #136 | |
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I seriously doubt the weapon inspections will go without a hitch. I think he will prove to the world that he is not sincere about allowing weapon inspections. Of course this will just be enough time for him to prepare for invasion.
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10-15-2002, 12:18 AM | #137 | |
the Shrike
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I'm sorry but NO PROOF does not work on me. Maybe if there was actually some of this "any amount of proof" I'd be a little more gung-ho about war, but as it stands, there is no proof.
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10-15-2002, 12:30 AM | #138 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - for some reason - even if Iraq had weapons and it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt - I can't picture you being "gung-ho about war." The UN weapon inspectors are going to go in soon - so it'll be interesting how they are actually received in iraq once they get there. The link is a Real One Player link - but I'm not sure if you need a subscription for it or not. Nowhere on the Nightline page says that you need a subscription.
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10-15-2002, 12:30 AM | #139 | |
Elven Warrior
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This is a man who is willing to allow tens of thousands of his own people to die. 65% of captured Iraqi' tanks, during the Gulf War, did not actually contain amunition (even more were captured because they ran out of fuel)............I personally know two people who served as infantry in the Gulf War and the Iraqi soldiers gave up with after only minimal aggression. This is situation based on propaganda.............on both sides (Iraq v's any who oppose them), nothing more IMO. Actually Saddam played a very clever diplomatic game during the last inspection (1998) as has been said several time in this thread, he discovered that members of the UN Inspection team were on the CIA payroll, therefore making the inspection illegal under the agreed conditions |
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10-15-2002, 12:35 AM | #140 | |
the Shrike
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