06-04-2003, 03:15 PM | #1361 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 06-04-2003 at 08:07 PM. |
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06-04-2003, 03:19 PM | #1362 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-04-2003, 03:36 PM | #1363 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But I think you didn't address my point (or perhaps I just missed it?) of WHY the child gets traumatized in the first place! It's because what happened to the child is BAD and WRONG. As you said, "Nobody deserves that kind of abuse." *another sad look at GrayMouser - see, I quoted exactly what she said!!* Or to put it another way - let's see, how about this idea? I would think that you would agree that the less children that get abused, the better. Would you? OK, how about picking ONE little boy and ONE little girl and putting them on an island somewhere, with good medical care and plenty of food and good shelter and top-of-the-line Nintendo equipment for fun. Then put all the pedophiles on the island with those children, and let them abuse the kids all they want (well, w/in reason; let's at least give them 8 hrs sleep and an hour of playtime - don't want to let the Nintendo go to waste!) (I picked both a boy and a girl because after all, some pedophiles like abusing boys, and some like abusing girls - we want to be sure the pedophiles stay happy!) That way, society would GREATLY benefit - there would be WAAAY fewer children getting molested, and all the pedophiles would be locked away on a desert island. Society would be happy, the pedophiles would be happy, and since there is no meaning to the word "bad" apart from the context of society, then nothing bad is happening to the children, so they must be happy too! Sound good?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-04-2003, 04:53 PM | #1364 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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GrayMouser - one more thing -
A while back, you tried to get me to answer a yes/no question. You said it was simple, and I had to either answer yes or no. Well, it's my opinion that some questions are not properly yes/no questions! Here's an example: GrayMouser, did you finally decide to stop beating your wife? Yes or No. Well, it's a simple yes/no question - what's your answer? (IOW, it may be a yes/no question syntactically, but a yes or no answer will NOT reflect the truth of the situation. And I'm interested in TRUTH, not clever word arrangements.)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-04-2003, 05:25 PM | #1365 | |
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I guess this does lead back to morals again. How dissapointing, I was hoping to avoid them Well, I'm going to use Locke again, because he's nice and convenient. Although I don't think our rights are god-given...hmm. Oh dear, I might have to contradict myself. This is all a bit difficult. Your example reminds me of a story about a Utopia that I read a while ago--I think my 4th grade teacher read it to us. Wow, 10 years ago! I don't remember what it was called or who wrote it, but in the story there was a perfect city, where everyone was happy. And everything worked so nicely because in this city, hidden away from everyone, was a tiny cell and in this cell was a child. This child sat alone in the room and could not leave, and was fed tiny meals that were hardly sufficient, and there were rats and whatnot crawling over the child, etc. And this child was a sort of sacrifice, and took on all the suffering that would otherwise be spread out among the rest of the population--though of course the child didn't know any of this. There are other stories, and even archealogical evidence, of children being sacrificied for the "good of the community." So you could take what I've said before and come to the conclusion that perhaps I think that if it benefits society as a whole, then small things like sacrificing one person for the sake of the whole is beneficial. However, I do not think this. Now here is where I need to figure something out that I haven't quite worked out yet. If it benefits society, how is it still "wrong" to treat one or two people badly? Here's where I again depend on Locke's bit about everyone having the right to life, liberty and property. Because, IMO, not only is society as a whole important, individual rights must be considered. Each individual is special in their own way (wow does that sound cheesy) and they each contribute to society. (Thank you, Ralph Waldo Emerson! ) So perhaps this child that was sacrificed to child molesters could have made some great invention? That's something society has lost then. Not to mention that individual's life becomes a living hell. And why should this one child be made to suffer while everyone else has opportunity? Perhaps it would be best to work for the kind of fairness and justice that we can never truly achieve but always make progress toward. This is all pretty big stuff. I suppose I don't have a clear answer yet, because there's so much more, but I think I've made a start. I hope. Furthermore, I mentioned before that it is important, IMO, for the pedophiles to learn what they have done wrong and be made to consider that. That is punishment, ne? So on this island they would never learn better. Would it not be better for society for them to be taken to some sort of place where it could be attempted to teach them the kind of horror they inflict and why this is "wrong?" There are places like this, actually. Hmm. Right. Anyway, I think that's enough for now, it's lunch time!
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06-04-2003, 06:03 PM | #1366 | ||
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06-05-2003, 11:56 PM | #1367 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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*hopes EG posts her joke about hell here!*
I'm too tired from the all-day field trip to post here tonight - Oy, the field trip from helck!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 06-05-2003 at 11:58 PM. |
06-06-2003, 02:32 AM | #1368 |
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God in a bad mood?
I found this joke today...here it is, Rian
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Quickly God was faced with a class action suit for failure to file and environmental impact statement. God was granted a temporary permit for the project, but was stymied with the cease and desist order for the earthly part. Then God said, "Let there be light!" Immediately the officials demanded to know how the light would be made. Would there be strip mining? What about thermal pollution? God explained that the light would come from a large ball of fire. God was granted provisional permission to make light, assuming that no smoke would result from the ball of fire, and that he would obtain a building permit; and to conserve energy, would have the light out half the time. God agreed and offered to call the light "Day" and the darkness "Night." The officials replied that they were not interested in semantics. God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plant yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit." The EPA agreed, so long as only native seed was used. Then God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth." The officials pointed out that this would require approval from the Department of Game coordinated with the Heavenly Wildlife Federation and the Audubongelic Society. Everything was OK 'till God said the project would be completed in six days. The officials said it would take at least two hundred days to review the applications and the impact statement. After that there would be a public hearing. Then there would be ten to twelve months before... At this point God created Hell.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
06-07-2003, 03:07 PM | #1369 | |
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 06-07-2003 at 03:08 PM. |
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06-07-2003, 03:13 PM | #1370 | |
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-07-2003, 03:29 PM | #1371 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Thank you for your gracious apology, GrayMouser - I really respect people that can sincerely apologize.
I think those that can't apologize are more interested in their self-image than in truth, or at least trying to find truth. I hope you can join into the discussion here, or I'll PM you when we get to your topic, if you would like. And thanks for the book info - I think I may have read that many years ago - I know that I've definitely read LeGuin before.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-07-2003, 03:33 PM | #1372 |
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OTOH, if you do believe in the literal truth of ALL the Bible, you still have to answer the question.
It is not a logical quandary such as the wife-beating question (or the Cretan liar); it is one of those moral questions beloved of ethicists( "You are at a railway switch with a locomotive bearing down; on one track is a schoolbus full of mentally handicapped children; on the other is a 78-year-old biochemist with a 60% chance of finding a cure for cancer if he lives...) To me, Judaeo-Christian ethics are something that have simply outgrown their origins- and a good thing too, as I believe a major part of our western liberal democratic values owe their existence to the Bible in its final form- after you throw in Isaiah and the Prophets and Ruth and Psalms and Ecclesiastes and Job. (Also, Rian, I should have made my apology more personal- it is mostly to you.)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
06-07-2003, 04:58 PM | #1373 | |
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
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06-07-2003, 07:41 PM | #1374 | ||
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I would like to discuss the topic, either after the hell discussion is finished, or I think there was another topic next in line, I'll have to check. And it's clear that we'll have to define terms, too, such as "literal truth of ALL the Bible" (does this mean that when Jesus says He is the vine and we are the branches, that I should look for leaves growing out of my arms? ) Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-07-2003, 11:25 PM | #1375 |
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Replying to the original question...
What religion am I? Well, I'm born a Jew and I believe in the Jewish ethics, but I don't take the Bible (or Tanakh) literally. One thing that I really like about the Jewish religion is that you can be constantly questioning your religion and challenging many of the points brought up in the Tanakh. My rabbi does all the time, and she admitted that she doesn't believe everything in the Tanakh. What is my family background? Well, I can trace back to six different countries: England, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania and Israel. I still have family in Israel (mostly in Haifa) and I hope to visit them some day, when all the violence has stopped (if it ever does... ).
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06-07-2003, 11:49 PM | #1376 |
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first time ive seen the torah called the tanakh......
i looked it up and its an acronym for all hebrew scriptures including the torah - huh - you learn something new every day :P
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06-07-2003, 11:50 PM | #1377 |
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Does that include the Talmud? I think it's considered scriptural by some, right?
I take it you weren't ever a very religious Jew, eh, HOBBIT?
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06-07-2003, 11:55 PM | #1378 |
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Well, the scroll with the first five books is called the Torah. A book with the Five Books of Moses, the Prophets, and the Writings is the Tanakh. I got one for my Bar Mitzvah, and it has the Hebrew on one side and the English on the other side. Very useful.
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06-07-2003, 11:56 PM | #1379 | |
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eh,i could take offense at that, but i won't since i'm so cool and I really am not a religious jew. Maybe i just don't remember - but i have NEVER heard the term tanakh. I always thought that the torah was the bible equivalent just without the new testament... oh well. I've been to hebrew school too and some services at other temples, never heard it. site i found: http://amerisoftinc.com/tanak1.htm
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
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06-07-2003, 11:58 PM | #1380 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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