07-08-2003, 07:35 PM | #1341 |
Elven Warrior
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what is the most important thing in your life; god, your husband, your family,etc?
would you sacrifice one of your children for god, as abraham was to sacrifice issac?
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07-08-2003, 07:44 PM | #1342 |
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Whew, this is waaayyy OT, MM! I'll answer over in the Offshoot thread, out of respect for the other posters here
Offshoot link
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-09-2003 at 02:57 PM. |
07-08-2003, 08:20 PM | #1343 | |
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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07-08-2003, 08:51 PM | #1344 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, and we are discussing the various aspects of the entire theory of evolution. One aspect is micro evolution, one is macro evolution. I have no problem with micro evolution, but a HUGE problem with macro.
Micro evolution is also in creationism - can I say that since you have no problem with micro evolution, therefore you have no problem with the entire theory of creationism? Methinks you would object
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-09-2003, 12:01 AM | #1345 | |
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You're right about the monkey hitting the same letter more than once, but considering there are only 26 letters, eventually it will hit the right one.
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07-09-2003, 12:39 AM | #1346 | |
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Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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07-09-2003, 01:22 AM | #1347 |
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i apologize for the OT post, i was in the wrong thread.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
07-09-2003, 03:04 PM | #1348 | |
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Sheeana and others - do you think recaptulation happens (just out of curiosity....) And Cirdan, I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but was I right in thinking you had a uni degree or background in microbiology? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-09-2003, 04:33 PM | #1349 | |
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Ontology recapitulates Phylogeny and there's nothing you can do about it.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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07-09-2003, 04:47 PM | #1350 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
Quote:
But we shall have to agree to differ on this point, I imagine (and I love your new avatar, BTW - I've always liked that pic of JRRT. There's a pic of his friend, C. S. Lewis, with his pipe, that reminds me of the Tolkien pic. I can just picture those two in the "Bird and Baby" (Eagle and Child) pub puffing away! Is that pub still around, do you know?) Other evolutionists - do you believe that recapitulation happens, esp. Sheeana? I"m just curious what the consensus of the posters here is.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-09-2003, 05:10 PM | #1351 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Oh, here it is.
Quote:
Now, he is correct in that the THEORY of evolution does not identify any limits. However, just because something is stated in a THEORY does not automatically make it true, of course; (IOW, you have objections to the THEORY of creationism!) My point is that the TYPE of change that is postulated HAS NOT BEEN OBSERVED, and what we HAVE observed in breeding, time and time again, consistantly and without fail, is that changes have limits, and the animals that are bred remain the original animals (dogs are still dogs, cows are still cows, flies are still flies, etc.) YOUR analogies of dictionaries and word lengths fail, IMO, because they are mere additions to existing things, without changing the type. It's the same thing as GM's pile of sand analogy. As far as that one, if you're going to use sand piles, I would say this would be a better picture of micro/macro evolution: "Here's a sand pile. Let's add grains of sand. Now we have a bigger sand pile. Let's keep adding grains of sand. Now look over there - there's a beach buggy zipping along the sand. Since we can observe both of them on the beach, we can deduce that if we keep adding grains of sand to the pile, then eventually we'll get a beach buggy." (yes, JD, another one of my analogies that you don't like because you think them ridiculous - but that's my point - one certain TYPE of change (macroevolution) that evolutionists are asking us to swallow is, um, well, I'll just say it doesn't make sense, and it is not demonstrated by anything we've ever seen. It's just an improper extrapolation of variation within type, which we DO see. But in variation within type, we ALSO see that ... birds remain birds, cats remain cats, etc. There is a LIMIT to change.) Quote:
And remember, there is a valid place for common sense and logic in this debate. If I were to hold up a single fossil and say "this is a well-defined fossil of an existing species today; therefore, creationism is true!", then your common sense would object, wouldn't it? IOW, it is an illogical deduction. And if an evolutionist were to hold up a single fossil and say "here is a fossil of something that is extinct; therefore evolutionism is true!", then I think I can safely say that your common sense would object here, too, because it is an illogical deduction. I"M NOT SAYING that evolutionists or creationists do this! Please note I said "single fossil"!! I'm just trying to show that there is a valid place for common sense and logic. Would you agree?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-09-2003, 05:20 PM | #1352 | |
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Cirdan - back to your link - I started reading it again, and clicked on the first link on "macroevolution" - here is an entire paragraph (so you guys won't charge quote-mining it saddens me to think that that charge might possibly be leveled against me...)
Quote:
Doesn't this go against your logic and training?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-09-2003, 08:41 PM | #1353 |
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Ooooooooooo this looks like fun!
It's my belief that macroevolution is totally false. I believe, however, that microevelution is true. Microevelution has been proved with the different breeds of animals and plants. However, macroevelution has yet to be proven. I firmly believe the theory on creationism. It seems more realistic to me. Wow, this post is miniscule compared to Rìan's!
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07-09-2003, 09:39 PM | #1354 | ||
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The dictionary analogy is actually a very good one for describing speciation. DNA is just a very simple molecular language, the genomes words, etc. Also species derive from one another or have a common root just like words. And it makes the point about a system without a limit to change. Extending beyond that point is not the intention.
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Sure, since the process is really an accumulation of micro steps. It reminds me of a parable from my youth. Someone claims to be able to jump to the top of the castle. Some wager is made (ok I forgot that part). The the person jumps up each step on the stairs up to the top of the castle. A single leap from one to another seems impossible, but step by step, it is. Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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07-09-2003, 10:01 PM | #1355 |
Lover of all things orange and cheesy
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Cirdan, if you can show me at least one example of macroevelution, a real, studied-and-proved example, I'll believe you.
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El Poco Diablo is watching you... It was like the Manifest Destiny all over again, except, instead of taking and consuming everything in their paths for God, they did so with the same fervor and sense of entitlement for their new god... themselves. If you want to know more about Jesus, have a prayer need, or want to talk about anything, PM me. |
07-09-2003, 10:32 PM | #1356 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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07-09-2003, 11:46 PM | #1357 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-10-2003, 04:51 PM | #1358 | |
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Yes, I'm famous for lulling people to sleep with my lengthy posts....
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-10-2003, 04:55 PM | #1359 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-10-2003, 06:08 PM | #1360 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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But seriously. It's not as if we are applying atomic theory to the physics of solar systems. The terms micro and macro evolution were political in origin and just became useful distinctions. There is no different mechanism involved, no different theory. The only difference is deep time. We superimposed types and categories for our own benefit, not because it describes any true separation of types or any barrier to change. Many of the specific scenarios are hypothetical and subject to revision, but I see no problem with the basic theory.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 07-10-2003 at 07:36 PM. |
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