06-17-2004, 03:55 PM | #1241 |
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I prefer hymns myself, but let's put all this in the context of history.
Many of Charles Wesley's great hymns simply changed the lyrics on old drinking songs. They met much the same response from the church. Wesley did this because they were reaching un-churched people... so by putting new words to a tune they knew, they were able to learn it quickly. I believe the organ was considered inappropriate when first introduced to churches. Don't know church music history that well... but I've heard those and a few others. Best not to look down on or deride something that someone else may find beneficial. In my church, we're using a lot of those choruses (including the one posted just a bit above). I'd prefer more hymns myself, but it's not about me. It's about reaching people we're not yet reaching.
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06-17-2004, 04:14 PM | #1242 |
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Pardon my ignorance Merc, but what are the general beliefs of the Lutherin Church? I mean, what are the practising differences... last year I went to a Singwoche in a Lutherin chruch in Germany, but I'm not going to pretend I knew much of what was going on, besides the music and sports we played. What did strike me too was how nice the people were. I digress.
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06-17-2004, 07:29 PM | #1243 | |
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I think you need to be extremely careful about saying only certain types of songs are pleasing to God. God tells us over and over that He looks at the HEART of a person, and that's what important. Personally, I love the hymns, and wish we would sing more than we do, but the teaching in our church is fabulous, and it has an incredible community and world outreach with not only money but people, and in general, the leadership has a heart for God, and people's lives are being challenged and changed and blessed. I think those are more important things than how many hymns we sing or what instruments are used. Good point about the drinking songs, Val. I think the "pour out my life" is a reference to being a servant like Christ was and like Christ instructed us to be, and also a reference to giving up our own control of our life and submitting to the Lordship of Jesus, also as He commanded us. We sometimes sing that one. In fact, most of the words in that one are in obedience to the command that Jesus gave us to take communion in rememberence of Him - the words are clearly obeying what He said to remember what He did for us.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-18-2004, 12:04 AM | #1244 | |
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06-18-2004, 05:01 PM | #1245 | ||||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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06-19-2004, 02:34 PM | #1246 | |
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06-19-2004, 02:45 PM | #1247 | ||
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to be continued...
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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06-19-2004, 02:48 PM | #1248 | ||
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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06-19-2004, 02:59 PM | #1249 | ||
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con't.
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One more quote to support my thoughts: Quote:
Pastor, St. Michael Lutheran Church High Point, North Carolina
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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06-19-2004, 03:17 PM | #1250 | ||
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Our pastor doesn't do "topical" sermons - he just picks books in the Bible and ploughs through them verse by verse (we're in Luke now). He says IHO, it's safer that way, because it doesn't let you avoid the more difficult subjects.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-20-2004, 12:05 PM | #1251 | |||
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Yay! It's done the right way in your church! Quote:
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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06-20-2004, 02:54 PM | #1252 | |
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The church I currently attend does do brilliantly with the music, though. My mother is very influential in its organization; probably a reason I like it so well . I just love the hymns. It's all so beautiful.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-20-2004, 05:23 PM | #1253 |
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While we are in the realm of Church Music, what's the most moving thing you've heard, your favorite hymn/organ piece, etc.?
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
06-20-2004, 06:32 PM | #1254 | ||
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I love the Common Cup Company, a small Christian music band started in my Dioceses. They have great music, very uplifting and spiritual. Even though I haven't listened to them in ages, I still remember part of "She Flies On".
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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06-20-2004, 06:53 PM | #1255 |
Elf Lord
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I've heard so many ancient beautiful hymns it's hard for me to sort one out. I tend to particularly love the ancient Irish hymns.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
06-20-2004, 08:51 PM | #1256 | |
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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06-20-2004, 09:52 PM | #1257 |
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while i've never had the pleasure of witnessing it in person i've always been overwhelmed by the power of the chants of the tibetan monks of the himalayas... it has that kind of otherworldly harmony to it that almost takes one beyond the idea of 'just listening to music'
on the more local side of things, i have a good friend who belongs to a southern baptist church... and while i've never been religious myself, i find their hymns and spirituals so uplifting they'd almost make a believer out of me the songs are often the old standards, but the delivery is so rousing you can't help but enjoy it
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06-21-2004, 12:59 AM | #1258 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-21-2004, 01:01 AM | #1259 | ||
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What are some of your favorites, Merc? I like so many - hmm, Savior like a Shepherd Lead Us for one .... more later....
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-21-2004, 11:55 AM | #1260 | |
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What Brownie said about the music reminded me of something I mentioned (a few months ago maybe?). Composer John Rutter attended Oxford Colleges in England. He would walk out of a lecture after a perfect arguement for atheism. The professor could've had him believing (or I guess not believing). But when he would go to Mass and hear the music (organ and choir), it would just blow him away. How could this exist and there not be a God?
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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