Religious Knowledge Thread

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I think that a 'true' pagan (in my book) would certainly at least chiefly worship the pantheon of his anscestors. Of course, I don't know, but I guess that they would pray to/worship especially a deity who would have to do with a situation that they are in, i.e. if they were going hunting, they would pray to a god of the hunt (assuming such a god did exist in a pantheon); if they were going to war, pray to a war-god, etc.

As for the other pagans, I think that Coney has said that a Pagan worships those gods that he deems worthy of his worship. I think so, but of course I'm not sure.

'Twould seem that Coney has a good deal of questions to answer!

Gwaimer - thanks for starting this thread, I have actually taken the time to read the whole thing from start to it's current point & I must say I find (almost) everyone's posts informative & interesting.

Wonderful! The HAL did something right for a change!

Hmm...almost...who would that be?

[Coney]

'Twould seem that Coney has a good deal of questions to answer!

It does...is there not one other pagan on these boards?

I'll be back to this thread later, still winding down after work at the mo'.......keep the questions coming tho' folks

[Rían]

I have one for you, Coney - was there a fire at work today?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem Coney, I have a question, but I'm a bit hesitant to ask it. I don't know if it would be considered offensive or too private, so if it is, then just let me know. Do you have any preferences to any specific gods/goddesses?

I don't consider it an offensive question but I'm not going to go into my personal beliefs. Paganism is a huge subject and I'll try to keep my answers as general as possible, not centered around my own path(s).

P.S. As long as we are talking about pagans, I would say that I am inclined to agree with IR, that I would think that the 'true' pagans would be people with an unbroken line from the old days of the religion.

Firstly I'm not very comfortable with the phrase true Pagan, it seems a bit like saying a Methodist is a true Christian or an Orthodox Jew is a true follower of Judaism.

If your interested you should first look up the word Pagan

Pagan isn't a religion, it's a generic word used to describe people who worship Gods other than Christianity/Jewdaism etc. All in all it's a relatively modern word.....ancient people didn't answer 'Pagan' when people asked them their religion

As for 'true Pagans' belonging to an unbroken line....well, there may be a family of inbred muntants in some distant valleys that can trace their ancestry and religious following for the last couple of millenia.....personally I don't think it makes any difference when you choose to follow your religion, or if it the same religion that your parents and ancestors followed.

[Coney]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I have one for you, Coney - was there a fire at work today?

Nope
I like these easy questions

[Legolaslvr!]

I am Cathloic but I dont go to church no more seeing as were always busy on SundaY!

[Coney]

Originally posted by Baby-K
Coney - I have a few questions re the Paganism, hope you wouldn't mind enlightening me?

1 How do you know which of the dieties deserve to be worshipped? (I was a bit confused by that statement)
2 Do these dieties have names such as the case with Hinduism, Bhuddism etc?
3 Do the Pagans worship the actual objects such as rocks or are these merely symbols of the diety that they believe in? (a representation of the living spirit or whatever being worshipped). If not how does a rock posess power to do anything for you? Or is the rock a symbol of something else like the strength of the earth or something?

I find it very interesting to hear of these things as I have hardly any experience of it and I enjoy learning new things.

1. It really all boils down to that magic word....Faith It's exactly the same as reading a bible and going to church, then feeling the need to worship God. Something about the a God/Goddess/Pantheon just clicks. (Sorry but that is as close to an answer as I can give, if I could explain, in a technical manner why anyone follows any religion I'd be the guru for the world ).

2. Yep. They all have names (You've just named two yourself, and I'm not gonna sit here and name the lot....mainly because don't know them all).

3.I've never heard of anyone worshipping an actual rock or a tree....many religions do worship the spirits which they believe inhabit them tho' (I think I went into this earlier in the thread somewhere).

Symbolism of the five elements is very important in a lot of Pagan religions though.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Doesn't anyone have any questions for Buddhists?

Re: Jesus as the Messiah, I actually asked a rabbi that, several years ago when I was considering converting to Orthodox Judaism (went with Buddhism instead). It was a difficult question to ask, but he was quite nice about it and referred me to The Real Messiah by Aryeh Kaplan. It's an uncompromising (meaning it may offend some folks), orthodox book that will answer any and all questions you might have on the subject. It's pretty good. I liked it; just checked, and it's still available at Amazon, or you probably could get it through a library.

There are actually three strains of Judaism: Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. The Orthodox Jews adhere to all 613 commandments given in the Torah (uh, I think only the rabbis and scholars and maybe some intense lay people read the Talmud -- it's very big and very deep). According to this Orthodox rabbi, the Reform people don't, but go with their own feelings and beliefs more (if I understood him correctly; am a little vague on that). As for the Conservatives, he said, "they pick and they choose."

Originally posted by Markedel
Well I have question for Christians. I'm curious where is the authorized translation of the bible from? I mean I've read lots of different translations and interpretations of this and that. Do differnet denominations have different sets? Is there one or two dominant translations? Or is it more of a read it as you like kind of thing? (I mean denominationally, I assume every group has their own spin as it were).

There is a big difference between the Catholic and the Protestant Bible: the Catholic has more books. I did a quick Web search to double-check that, and found a site that looks interesting, though I don't know anything about the site.

Originally posted by Rian
I heard something last week that I'd like to know more about from anyone that knows Judaism - someone said that the animal sacrifices for sin can't be done because there's no temple, so now study of the Torah is considered to be the substitute for the animal sacrifices. Can anyone comment on that?

It's a pretty puny comment, but I do remember the rabbi saying that that some of the 613 commandments can't be performed because at present there's no Temple, but it was five or six years ago, I went in a different direction, and now don't remember which ones they were or what the alternative was. I think everybody is supposed to study the Torah always, so am not sure that was the alternative.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Wouldn't all people who call themselves Pagan actually be Neo-Pagan?

I'm glad this question came up

A Neo-Pagan is someone who follows only one Path (doctrine) They worship only one God/Goddess/Pantheon (being a devout follower of say......Hinduism, is a good example)....They worship their chosen diety(s) and no other......Many (but not all) Neo-Pagans also only acknowledge the existance of there chosen belief.

A Pagan (proper) acknowleges the existance and power of all dieties......they decide/discover who they worship but try to respect all others, even occasionally joining followers of a different path in their worship (could be seen as 'hedging your bets' ).

[Coney]

Originally posted by markedel
So how do pagans pick which gods to pray to? I have heard that many pagan religions hold up a high god of sorts-does that hold. Or is it more of a pantheist type thing, like Shintoism?

I don't think anyone can 'pick' anything to pray to.......if you did you would only be paying them lip-service....it's all about belief. You hear about a religion/doctrine/belief system and it just clicks.

The Gods/Pantheons that come under the title 'Pagan' are a multitude.

[Starr Polish]

But...wouldn't the technical meaning of Neo-Pagan mean "new Pagan", thus meaning any modern Pagan, because none of the actual Pagan beliefs of old have been completely preserved?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I think that a 'true' pagan (in my book) would certainly at least chiefly worship the pantheon of his anscestors. Of course, I don't know, but I guess that they would pray to/worship especially a deity who would have to do with a situation that they are in, i.e. if they were going hunting, they would pray to a god of the hunt (assuming such a god did exist in a pantheon); if they were going to war, pray to a war-god, etc.

As for the other pagans, I think that Coney has said that a Pagan worships those gods that he deems worthy of his worship. I think so, but of course I'm not sure.

Exactly. I worship those that I feel (really feel) most reflect how I've lived/am live/wish to live my life. I've tried to follow other religions but they just felt hollow or 'false' (if that makes sense).

[Coney]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
But...wouldn't the technical meaning of Neo-Pagan mean "new Pagan", thus meaning any modern Pagan, because none of the actual Pagan beliefs of old have been completely preserved?

Actually yes...Neo Pagan is, relatively speaking, a very new word (As is Pagan)......"New Pagan" has simply been adopted to categorise (horribly word that) those who follow a specific path from those who follow a more generic belief system..

Ok, that looks about the lot for now...

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Coney
A Neo-Pagan is someone who follows only one Path (doctrine) They worship only one God/Goddess/Pantheon (being a devout follower of say......Hinduism, is a good example)....They worship their chosen diety(s) and no other......Many (but not all) Neo-Pagans also only acknowledge the existance of there chosen belief.

A Pagan (proper) acknowleges the existance and power of all dieties......they decide/discover who they worship but try to respect all others, even occasionally joining followers of a different path in their worship (could be seen as 'hedging your bets' ).

Im really losing the distinction here. "Neo" just means new. And since all the original pagans are extinct, except for isolated indiginious peoples, I would assume everybody who calls themselves pagan now would actually be technically a neo-pagan (unless they could somehow trace their religious practice directly back to say mesolithic england or something). But whats the point of calling everyone a neo-pagan? Its a silly distinction. Pagan is pagan. its not like calling someone a christian or jew. its more general. I agree with what you said earlier in the thread that some people are "new agers" but I would also call them pagan (technically neo-pagan) since their belief system fits in perfectly with the pagan path options.

EDIT: Star Polish I should have read the rest of the thread. You basically had the same point in your question. Very sharp.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
I'm glad this question came up

A Neo-Pagan is someone who follows only one Path (doctrine) They worship only one God/Goddess/Pantheon (being a devout follower of say......Hinduism, is a good example)....They worship their chosen diety(s) and no other......Many (but not all) Neo-Pagans also only acknowledge the existance of there chosen belief.

A Pagan (proper) acknowleges the existance and power of all dieties......they decide/discover who they worship but try to respect all others, even occasionally joining followers of a different path in their worship (could be seen as 'hedging your bets' ).

But originally (and I mean VERY originally), didn't all Pagans worship only one pantheon/deity?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
But originally (and I mean VERY originally), didn't all Pagans worship only one pantheon/deity?

you mean like the first cave man?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Not QUITE that originally. I mean like several thousand years ago, before the time of the Romans, like maybe around the days of Egypt as two kingdoms, or maybe earlier.

EDIT:
When I say 'didn't they all worship one pantheon/deity', I should have said 'each' instead of 'all'. In other words, each pagan would worship one deity or pantheon, not that they would all worship one deity or pantheon.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Not QUITE that originally. I mean like several thousand years ago, before the time of the Romans, like maybe around the days of Egypt as two kingdoms, or maybe earlier.

EDIT:
When I say 'didn't they all worship one pantheon/deity', I should have said 'each' instead of 'all'. In other words, each pagan would worship one deity or pantheon, not that they would all worship one deity or pantheon.

Well i think something like that we will never know because it goes well back before any sort of recorded history (before writing in fact). I mean as long as we have been homo sapiens we have had some kind of religion. And of course paganism that old has vanished into the mists of time tens of thousands of years ago. we have brief glimpses of it in cave paintings and strange fertility figurines but thats about it.

The first religions we have any clue about would probably be the sumerian religion of the first great civilization of sumeria. This was followed by the babylonian religion, the Assyrian religion and then the Egyption religion which kicked in around 15th century BC in the form that we know so well.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

No, those ones you talked about (or maybe somewhat before them, but not too much) were the kind I was talking about. Post-cave-man era.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Coney
1. It really all boils down to that magic word....Faith It's exactly the same as reading a bible and going to church, then feeling the need to worship God. Something about the a God/Goddess/Pantheon just clicks. (Sorry but that is as close to an answer as I can give, if I could explain, in a technical manner why anyone follows any religion I'd be the guru for the world ).

2. Yep. They all have names (You've just named two yourself, and I'm not gonna sit here and name the lot....mainly because don't know them all).

3.I've never heard of anyone worshipping an actual rock or a tree....many religions do worship the spirits which they believe inhabit them tho' (I think I went into this earlier in the thread somewhere).

Symbolism of the five elements is very important in a lot of Pagan religions though.

Thanks Coney BTW I started that book last night - it is good, has some original prayers & blessing + the translations etc & some of them are really beautiful. It's also quite insightful and has already answered some of the other questions I had for you, but if I get stuck I'll just summon the power of the rabbit