Polictical Correctness

[Insidious Rex]

You know the more I read this thread the more it seems like a lot of people seem to think minority worries about racism are completely bogus and they should just shut up. Personally I think that’s pretty *ucked up thank you. Sure people have gone over board and sure there will always be people to take advantage of situations but you really shouldn’t make it out as if racism never effected anyone and its all a big crock. I have an idea. How bout sighting an equally outrageous racism anecdote each time you site an outrageous pc example that we all shake our heads at. Believe it or not there IS a legitimate reason behind this sillyness that became the over the top pc movement. Don’t completely marginalize the horrors that HAVE happened for decades simply because you don’t like the pc crowd.

Now regarding chris rock: Richard Pryor was doing EXACTLY the same stuff (not the same material but the same kind of humor regarding blacks and whites) 20 years before Rock was. Ask rock. Hell say so himself. He thinks Pryor is a god. And Pryor’s stuff is some of the funniest stuff ive ever heard in my life. The guy was such a genius. Try listening to the bit he does about if black people had made the exorcist and youll see what I mean.

Originally posted by afro-elf
Why is it that black people can use the N-word but anyone else who does is racist?

Why is if a white person even remotely suggest a Black is to blame they have to resign?

That's bulls***.

What country do you live in? I have white friends who say nigger all the time and it doesn’t occur to them (or me anymore) that it’s a racist insult because of the way they use it. Its been marginalized.

On the second point: again what country is this? Are you saying that white people cant fire black people? Or cant blame blacks if they do something wrong? Again, not in my experience.

Originally posted by Ruinel
I'm white, I live in "The South" (which is southern US for those of you outside the US), and actually Texas, to be exact. Unfortunately, a small segment of people here have left a strong impression on the rest of the world of people who are white in the south that we are all a bunch of uneducated, trailer-trash, country song lovin', spandex and tube top wearing, beer-bellied, racist hicks who have never left the trailer park we grew up in. And because there really are people here like that, they've f***ked it up for the rest of us who ARE educated and cultured and appreciate another person for who they are and not what epidermis they might be poured into.

what! You don’t wear spandex! * disillusioned *

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
You know the more I read this thread the more it seems like a lot of people seem to think minority worries about racism are completely bogus and they should just shut up. Personally I think that’s pretty *ucked up thank you. Sure people have gone over board and sure there will always be people to take advantage of situations but you really shouldn’t make it out as if racism never effected anyone and its all a big crock. I have an idea. How bout sighting an equally outrageous racism anecdote each time you site an outrageous pc example that we all shake our heads at. Believe it or not there IS a legitimate reason behind this sillyness that became the over the top pc movement. Don’t completely marginalize the horrors that HAVE happened for decades simply because you don’t like the pc crowd.

I know there is racism and that it is real. But everyone suffers from it in some form or another. PC is not the way to correct the problem - that just limits speech. Education is what is important. Telling a child that he can't say gay - when obviously he never thought it was wrong - nor his parents who are gay - is ridiculous. YOu may be perfectly willing to put up with ridiculous PC stuff because of past history - I'm not. As the Indians claim that they are used as mascots - while whites aren't - teams such as the Patriots, Kings, Vikings, etc are playing.

Now regarding chris rock: Richard Pryor was doing EXACTLY the same stuff (not the same material but the same kind of humor regarding blacks and whites) 20 years before Rock was. Ask rock. Hell say so himself. He thinks Pryor is a god. And Pryor’s stuff is some of the funniest stuff ive ever heard in my life. The guy was such a genius. Try listening to the bit he does about if black people had made the exorcist and youll see what I mean.

I know Richard Pryor was doing that stuff before - but this is the video someone else had sent me. Since most people know Chris Rock - I think it was better to post this, not to mention I don't have any Richard Pryor videos.

[afro-elf]

You know the more I read this thread the more it seems like a lot of people seem to think minority worries about racism are completely bogus and they should just shut up. Personally I think that’s pretty *ucked up thank you. Sure people have gone over board and sure there will always be people to take advantage of situations but you really shouldn’t make it out as if racism never effected anyone and its all a big crock. I have an idea. How bout sighting an equally outrageous racism anecdote each time you site an outrageous pc example that we all shake our heads at. Believe it or not there IS a legitimate reason behind this sillyness that became the over the top pc movement. Don’t completely marginalize the horrors that HAVE happened for decades simply because you don’t like the pc crowd.

JD got this one for me,

I know there is racism and that it is real. But everyone suffers from it in some form or another. PC is not the way to correct the problem - that just limits speech. Education is what is important.

[afro-elf]

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[afro-elf]

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[hectorberlioz]

your computer not responding afro-elf? same happened here a while back...

[Spock]

IMO the time for affirmative action is over.
Ability not color should determine job placement.
Scholarship not color should determine entrance to higher education.
Afro Elf should be commended for approaching this subject with a ten foot pole and an open mind.

[hectorberlioz]

amen .
afro-elf starts really interesting threads. good real life issues discussions.

[afro-elf]

QUOTE]What country do you live in?[/QUOTE]

Well, technically Japan.

Vanbiesbrouck, a former NHL goaltending star who owns 25 per cent of the Greyhounds, resigned as coach and general manager of the team on Monday after referring to Daley as a "nigger" following a game Friday.

CBS fires football analyst Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder for making remarks viewed as racist. --- he said that blacks are better at sports because of slave plantation breeding techniques. "During the slave period, the slave owner would breed his big black with his big woman so that he would have a big black kid–that's where it all started."

That does seem racist to me.



In 1983, Howard Cosell resigned following intense public outcries after he exclaimed,
"Look at that little monkey run!" about Washington Redskins receiver ...

That could be kinda bad. But look at him and Mohhamed Ali and his friendship and support of him.

Trent Lott's forced resignation ---It was a eulogy and he said he support the guy. In 1945 or sothe guy supported segregation.
Lott did not say Yeah segreation. He was giving a eulogy.


Three advocacy groups have called on Secretary of State Colin Powell to fire Andrew Natsios, U.S. administrator for foreign aid, for his comments on Africa that they called "shockingly racist."

He said--most Africans do not have clocks or watches for determining the time to take medication and thus could not take medication at specific times

WOW! How evil.

Rush Limbaugh got canned from his show and then "voluntarily resigned" from his new job at ESPN.

He said that the NFL wants a Black QB to succeed forPR reasons.


.

.



My favorite one because I do
see what was wrong with it.


"These cultures do not encourage
achievement. Failure is not looked
upon with disgrace."

-- Lino Graglia,a UT law professor


Now here are blacks who have not been fired or punished for their remarks

Reggie White to the Wisconsin State Assembly

....They couldn't enslave the Indians because the Indians knew the territory, and the Indians knew how to sneak up on people....

Well, it's interesting to me to know why now. When you look at the black race, black people are very gifted in what we call worship and celebration. A lot of us like to dance, and if you go to black churches, you see people jumping up and down, because they really get into it

White people were blessed with the gift of structure and organization. You guys do a good job of building businesses and things of that nature and you know how to tap into money pretty much better than a lot of people do around the world.

Hispanics are gifted in family structure. You can see a Hispanic person and they can put 20 or 30 people in one home. They were gifted in the family structure.

When you look at the Asians, the Asian is very gifted in creation, creativity and inventions. If you go to Japan or any Asian country, they can turn a television into a watch. They're very creative. And you look at the Indians, they have been very gifted in the spirituality.


Chicago Cubs Managaer Dusty Baker Said that Black Players Are Better Players In Hot Climates Because Their Ancestors Come From Hot Climates, And The White Players Are Not As Good In Hot Weather Because They Come From Cold Climates.
Christ, how many White Guys have been fired for saying the same thing? There's obviously a DOUBLE STANDARD when it comes to BLACKS making racist comments

Jesse Jackson once referred to New York City as "Hymie-town"


Al Sharpton http://www.intellectualconservative....ticle2138.html

Numerous readers have commented on the LA Laker superstar Shaquille O'Neill's racist mocking of Yao Ming on National TV

[afro-elf]

Spock and Hector thanks.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by afro-elf
QUOTE]CBS fires football analyst Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder for making remarks viewed as racist. --- he said that blacks are better at sports because of slave plantation breeding techniques. "During the slave period, the slave owner would breed his big black with his big woman so that he would have a big black kid–that's where it all started."

That does seem racist to me.

I always thought this didnt so much show hateful racism but just ignorant stupidity to say something like that in the way he did on the air. i mean god. BUT what he said does in fact make sense biologically. so i never had a problem with it. i think the issue was simply how he said it. and a lot of people get terribly troubled when you start talking about quantifiable measurable differences between "races" because the exact same thing was done by well accepted scientists to "prove" that blacks were dumber then whites and incapable of comprehending things like philosophy and higher mathematics and thus their place was in the fields or such. and also they had less capacity to control their "primary instincts" then whites did. this was of course useful for people of that era to justify the unequal treatment of blacks. so now of course its a taboo subject. BUT I think what jimmy the greek said made perfect sense never the less. i certainly guarantee you though that we will NEVER have a scientific study to investigate such statements.

In 1983, Howard Cosell resigned following intense public outcries after he exclaimed,
"Look at that little monkey run!" about Washington Redskins receiver ...

remember when Al Campanis said blacks were no good at sports like tennis (not anymore i guess) and golf (ditto there) and swimming because of physical reasons? i think he said they were no good at swimming because they were "less boyant" then whites. i laughed so hard after i heard that. it STILL makes me laugh to this day. it shows you that free speech is great because it shows how people can be complete idiots. was this a racist comment? i guess you could make that argument. is it one we should worry about? i think anyone who actually thinks this needs serious help. but im sure a lot of people do. should he have been fired? sure. its CBS's call and they can fire people for whatever reason they want.

I think the bottom line from all the anecdotes you sited shows us that a lot of people are idiots no matter what race they are or culture they are from. now i dont really find this surprising. i would hope you would have known this for a long time now. lots of people say stupid things and believe stupid things. we should simply say to people hey idiot thats a stupid thing to say/believe. period. and then give the reasons why. but you arent gonna change a lot of minds one way or the other. thats why people like rush limbaugh or louis farakan and others are so popular because they reinforce eronious beliefs that others have. bias is more important then truth to many people.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
... and swimming because of physical reasons? i think he said they were no good at swimming because they were "less boyant" then whites.

lmao! Damn, that's funny. Boyancy has to do with the amount of fat on your body. I think that might he a compliment, actually.

I wish I was less boyant. My boobies make me float to the surface.

[Spock]

That has to come from all the slaves thrown overboard between Africa and the US mainland where the sharks still search for meat. ....Now before you get nutzo, that's a quote from a black politician a few years ago. Ignorance knows no color.
And the slave owners did breed for qualities as they looked upon slaves as not human, rather as beasts of burden in most cases;...not all cases.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Spock
That has to come from all the slaves thrown overboard between Africa and the US mainland where the sharks still search for meat.

Gads! I went out and bought the movie Amistad as soon as it came out for sale. Parts of the trip over on the ship I had no stomach for. That scene when the people are chained to the net full of rocks and pushed overboard still puts a knot in my stomach and gives me chills. I can imagine myself, ankle chained and sinking to the depths, choking on the salty water as it filled my lungs. GASP! And to think the captors were god fearing christians. Makes me wonder what sort of afterlife they expected to go to, seeing as how that's part of their belief system.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Actually, if I remember correctly, the "captors" per se were Africans, probably animists. Though I wonder why just because the slavers were westerners, you assume they were Christians; or is it because the westerners were slavers that you assume they were Christians?

Then again, maybe you think that I think that...

Seriously, that was a powerful movie. The Christian themes were great, and the abuse scenes were absolutely gutwrenching.

Anyway, to the thread topic: I'll quote John Cleese, as I feel he put it very well, "There's a good idea at the back of political correctness, but it gets taken ad absurdum." That pretty well sums up my views.

[sun-star]

I read this today, and it seems relevant to the discussion:

Prison officer sacked for bin Laden 'insult'
A prison officer was sacked for making an allegedly insulting remark about Osama bin Laden two months after the September 11 attacks, an employment tribunal heard yesterday.

The Norwich hearing was told that on Nov 15, 2001, he threw some keys into a metal chute at the prison gatehouse. When someone said it sounded as if he had thrown them so hard that they were going through the tray at the bottom of the chute, Mr Rose said: "There's a photo of Osama bin Laden there."

Peter McKinnon, another prison officer, told him to be quiet because two Asian women wearing headscarves and an Asian man were at the window of the gatehouse.

The investigation never discovered whether the visitors heard the comment. Andrew Rogers, the assistant governor, told the tribunal: "I am not sure whether Mr Rose saw the visitors.

"I took offence at the comment. If the visitors had heard the comment, they might have taken offence, too." When Mr Rose was carpeted the next day, he said it was only a throwaway remark. He was sacked in May last year after a disciplinary hearing.

Mr Knight told the tribunal that the prison had a large Asian population, including many Muslims.

"On Sept 25, 2001, a staff notice was issued regarding the terrorist bombing of America, asking for staff to have continued sensitivity. I asked them to avoid inflaming the situation."

Prison officer Mark Ewels, who conducted the investigation, said he had not tried to track down the Asians to find out if they had heard the remark because he thought the issue was too sensitive to raise with them.

Note the interesting use of the conditional: "If they had heard the comment, they might have taken offense". He's created his own little fantasy world there

[Spock]

Yep p.c. bull .... and the system upholds firing him for that? Yikes!

Then too the Ga. legislator who called someone niggardly and was forced to appologize even though the word has nothing to do with race and the ignorant people and supervisors who demanded the apology wouldn't back down when that fact was pointed out.
....makes you want to run and hide....

[Khamûl]

Wasn't there a teacher that was disciplined for using the word "niggardly"? Seems that there was...

[Insidious Rex]

there was a talk show host in the DC area that got pulled off the air because they said that. but he was an arch conservative right wing twit so i was happy to see him go. its a legitimate word but yer just asking for trouble by saying that unfortunately. there will always be censors and book burners. on every side.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
there was a talk show host in the DC area that got pulled off the air because they said that. but he was an arch conservative right wing twit so i was happy to see him go. its a legitimate word but yer just asking for trouble by saying that unfortunately. there will always be censors and book burners. on every side.

So it's okay that he was fired for that because he didn't agree with your politics? But if you were a supporter of his - you would be upset?

I support the right for the black panther guy or whatever he is on the corner of 42nd street in NY to state his views- even though I completely disagree with him and he says that the white man is evil. If someone were to say that he shouldn't be there - I would stick up for him. Not for what he says - but for his right to say it.