Pop culture - Page 6

jerseydevil · 08-10-2002, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Are you being a literalist again? That's twice today I've made a joke, and you've taken it literally.

(And I wasn't referring to american music in anyway, just manufactured music - and sorry, the beatles wrote their own songs, and started the new styles. Also: I was being purely tongue in cheek about needing a social revolution to kickstart a musical one. Geez. )

I know but you didn't put any smilies.

How was I supposed to know that that you were only joking?

OH and sorry - Just a habit I've gotten into of defending America from you.

I think you've started leaving America out of your posts - but in the back of your mind - that's what your referring to.

BeardofPants · 08-11-2002, 12:06 AM

Nergh, are you a mind reader now?

I don't know about over there, but over here, we actually get MORE manufactured music from England & Ireland, than America! (Darn Boyzone!!

)

Cirdan · 08-11-2002, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Nergh, are you a mind reader now? I don't know about over there, but over here, we actually get MORE manufactured music from England & Ireland, than America! (Darn Boyzone!! )

Does this mean you don't want this plutonium anymore?

jerseydevil · 08-11-2002, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Nergh, are you a mind reader now? I don't know about over there, but over here, we actually get MORE manufactured music from England & Ireland, than America! (Darn Boyzone!! )

That's supposed to be a government secret so don't tell anyone.

We don't get a lot of manufactured music from other countries. Most likely because we produce so much of our own. It's actually very hard for foreign musicians and bands to get into the US.

BeardofPants · 08-11-2002, 01:06 AM

Well it only took the Beatles 3 years, and a very public Ed Sullivan show...

Bregalad · 08-11-2002, 01:14 AM

There's a pattern throughout history, that when a society turns over a new millenium it often enters a more liberating period for a couple of decades. I'm not saying this has anything to do with numerology or astrology, in fact, mankind manufactures how we count the years, it is not determined from nature. That is why our millenium is so drastically different from, say China's. (think of it as the difference between Shire reconing and the rest of middle earth.) Yet this trend still exists, perhaps it comes more from a psychological cause, new beginings and all that. When the 1800's became the 1900's the US went from the very prudish, straight-laced, confining attitude of the Victorian era, to the wild and free "Roaring" 20's. Socialogically speaking this was a great upheaval, women went from wearing corsets, and being covered from neck to toe, to the racy 20's styles showing short skirts and rolled down stockings which actually allowed a glimpse of bare leg! They smoked and drank and demanded many of the same social privilages as men. And music changed drastically. The charleston era was born, and classical music began to give way to Blues, and the birth of Jazz. What an astonding period in our music history! (of course, the Victorians all though it was devil music, and would corupt the young of America!) So now, after that rambling begining of my post, I'll get to the point of this whole thing. Before our Millinium, we had a lot in common with the Victorian era. In the 80's and 90's were very repressed compared to the free and easy 60's and 70's. Women's clothing styles got much less revealing, and the "Boy bands" were born. I am hoping that this millinium turnover will have the same amazing effect on our pop culture that the last one did. And that we will see an emergence of new music, and other new art. Hopefully, the horrendous era of the "Boy band" is almost over!

Cirdan · 08-11-2002, 01:24 AM

It's only been in the last ten years that Music in the US was predominantly homwgrown. The rise of grunge and hip-hop and the various degrees between have superceded all but the most popular holdovers from the prior eras. Oasis, and Bjork are notable but nothing like the period from the Beatles through Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Who, to U2. Artists like Ozzy Osborne and others continue to be popular.

jerseydevil · 08-11-2002, 01:33 AM

It has less to with dates and things that bring about these changes. It's more the changes of the generations and inventions and just plain rebellion. The previous generation always wants to rebel against the one that came before and be different. The thing with the 80's was that aids became a reality. The 60's and 70's could have free love, but the 80's had to deal with aids. America was experiencing stagflation and high gas prices during the 70's. The music and culture reflected this.

jerseydevil · 08-11-2002, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cirdan
It's only been in the last ten years that Music in the US was predominantly homwgrown. The rise of grunge and hip-hop and the various degrees between have superceded all but the most popular holdovers from the prior eras. Oasis, and Bjork are notable but nothing like the period from the Beatles through Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Who, to U2. Artists like Ozzy Osborne and others continue to be popular.

I disagree. For every foreign band there have been a lot of good domestic bands and singers from the past.

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 04:14 AM

Quote:

I disagree. For every foreign band there have been a lot of good domestic bands and singers from the past.

I think Cirdan's point was that in the past there were more foreign bands here than there are now. Not, that there weren't any good native bands.

jerseydevil · 08-11-2002, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf

I think Cirdan's point was that in the past there were more foreign bands here than there are now. Not, that there weren't any good native bands.

I think there were good native bands. A lotof the 70's music was native bands - like Billy Joel and stuff.

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 04:36 AM

Quote:

I think there were good native bands. A lotof the 70's music was native bands - like Billy Joel and stuff.

Are you just making a general statement or did you think he or (I) meant there weren't any good native bands?

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 04:38 AM

On a side note, isn't it about 3:00 am over there now?

jerseydevil · 08-11-2002, 04:57 AM

Actually it's 4:30. I was doing some development stuff.

To answer your previous question - I was just making a general statement. I don't think that you were saying that there weren't any good domestic bands. I do agree that there were more foreign bands than today (at least during the 60's and 70's, some during the 80's).

I must be tired - it took me a half hour to write that. It's now 5:00am.

Okay - I reread Cirdan's post. What I was getting at was that in order to make the statement that "It's only been in the last ten years that Music in the US was predominantly homwgrown" - you'd have to completely forget about the Jazz age or the 50's. Basically all the decades prior to the 60's was "homegrown" music.

Now 6:00

Cirdan · 08-11-2002, 11:48 AM

Yes, I was basically ignoring anything pre-sixties as I was addressing BoP's accurate point that the "British Invasion" of the sixties dominated American pop culture at the time. Were there good American bands? Absolutely, but their popularity came later in their careers. Even Jimi Hendrix wasn't famous until he spent time in London. Only a few bands like The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, the Beach Boys, and Bob Dylan et al had any impact on the music scene at that time. Even so, as far as pop culture goes, the Beatles completely dominated the scene during their existence.

As a footnote, all the "Britsh Invasion" groups music was derivative of American Blues. Everybody got rich on the blues except those people that actually created it, including the white american pop artists of the fifties. The same is true of jazz, for the most part.

Of course then you must go back to gospel, then traditional religious music, and finally to classical music and the foundations of modern formal western music.

BeardofPants · 08-11-2002, 04:38 PM

Yes. Alot of the so-called Brit invasion "stole" traditionals from the black blues/jazz singers. I'm sure I could pull a few examples of the Beatles doing this, if I weren't so lazy. But you get the idea.

PS Ssssshhhh! about the plutonium.

Cirdan · 08-11-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Yes. Alot of the so-called Brit invasion "stole" traditionals from the black blues/jazz singers. I'm sure I could pull a few examples of the Beatles doing this, if I weren't so lazy. But you get the idea.

PS Ssssshhhh! about the plutonium.

oops! My bad

I don't know if "stole" is always correct; inspired could be put in some places. Led Zeppelin and Cream picked extensively through the American blues "catalog". The Beatles' "Sargent Pepper's..." was truely inspired. The case can be made both ways in many instances. I guess it was good for traditional blues in the long run as it was free publicity for bluesmen like Muddy Waters, BB King, and Howlin' Wolf.

BeardofPants · 08-11-2002, 07:29 PM

Yes Sgt Peppers was entirely original... BUT... check out their first couple of albums. Most of them are traditionals. Their very foundations lie in being inspired by Little Richard, etc.

And while it was good publicity for the blues movement, in many cases the white-icised version of it completely overshadowed the black version. Manfred Mann, anyone? *sickened look*

Cirdan · 08-11-2002, 08:37 PM

oo... entirely original. That is brave. Jefferson Airplane's "Bathing at Baxter's" was released 4 months prior. There were many psychedelic bands before Sgt. P's was released. They did it bigger and better, but first...?

Screaming Lord Sutch had long hair in 1962.

You didn't like the Pat Boone versions then, either, eh?

BeardofPants · 08-11-2002, 08:55 PM

No, not the concept of psychedelia - that was intro'd on Revolver/Rubber Soul as well (Tomorrow never knows, Norwegian Wood)... Plus they were "inspired" by Pet Sounds. No, I was talking about the concept album... but then again, I think I might be talking out my ass again.

08-11-2002, 12:06 AM	#102
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Nergh, are you a mind reader now? I don't know about over there, but over here, we actually get MORE manufactured music from England & Ireland, than America! (Darn Boyzone!! ) __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-11-2002, 01:06 AM	#105
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Well it only took the Beatles 3 years, and a very public Ed Sullivan show... __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-11-2002, 01:14 AM	#106
Bregalad Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KY Posts: 217	There's a pattern throughout history, that when a society turns over a new millenium it often enters a more liberating period for a couple of decades. I'm not saying this has anything to do with numerology or astrology, in fact, mankind manufactures how we count the years, it is not determined from nature. That is why our millenium is so drastically different from, say China's. (think of it as the difference between Shire reconing and the rest of middle earth.) Yet this trend still exists, perhaps it comes more from a psychological cause, new beginings and all that. When the 1800's became the 1900's the US went from the very prudish, straight-laced, confining attitude of the Victorian era, to the wild and free "Roaring" 20's. Socialogically speaking this was a great upheaval, women went from wearing corsets, and being covered from neck to toe, to the racy 20's styles showing short skirts and rolled down stockings which actually allowed a glimpse of bare leg! They smoked and drank and demanded many of the same social privilages as men. And music changed drastically. The charleston era was born, and classical music began to give way to Blues, and the birth of Jazz. What an astonding period in our music history! (of course, the Victorians all though it was devil music, and would corupt the young of America!) So now, after that rambling begining of my post, I'll get to the point of this whole thing. Before our Millinium, we had a lot in common with the Victorian era. In the 80's and 90's were very repressed compared to the free and easy 60's and 70's. Women's clothing styles got much less revealing, and the "Boy bands" were born. I am hoping that this millinium turnover will have the same amazing effect on our pop culture that the last one did. And that we will see an emergence of new music, and other new art. Hopefully, the horrendous era of the "Boy band" is almost over! __________________ "They have called me that ever since I said yes to an elder Ent before he had finished his question" -Quickbeam This post property of Entmoot. Last edited by Bregalad : 08-11-2002 at 01:17 AM.

08-11-2002, 01:24 AM	#107
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	It's only been in the last ten years that Music in the US was predominantly homwgrown. The rise of grunge and hip-hop and the various degrees between have superceded all but the most popular holdovers from the prior eras. Oasis, and Bjork are notable but nothing like the period from the Beatles through Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Who, to U2. Artists like Ozzy Osborne and others continue to be popular. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

08-11-2002, 01:33 AM	#108
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	It has less to with dates and things that bring about these changes. It's more the changes of the generations and inventions and just plain rebellion. The previous generation always wants to rebel against the one that came before and be different. The thing with the 80's was that aids became a reality. The 60's and 70's could have free love, but the 80's had to deal with aids. America was experiencing stagflation and high gas prices during the 70's. The music and culture reflected this. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-11-2002, 04:38 AM	#113
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	On a side note, isn't it about 3:00 am over there now? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-11-2002, 04:57 AM	#114
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Actually it's 4:30. I was doing some development stuff. To answer your previous question - I was just making a general statement. I don't think that you were saying that there weren't any good domestic bands. I do agree that there were more foreign bands than today (at least during the 60's and 70's, some during the 80's). I must be tired - it took me a half hour to write that. It's now 5:00am. Okay - I reread Cirdan's post. What I was getting at was that in order to make the statement that "It's only been in the last ten years that Music in the US was predominantly homwgrown" - you'd have to completely forget about the Jazz age or the 50's. Basically all the decades prior to the 60's was "homegrown" music. Now 6:00 __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-11-2002 at 05:51 AM.

08-11-2002, 11:48 AM	#115
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Yes, I was basically ignoring anything pre-sixties as I was addressing BoP's accurate point that the "British Invasion" of the sixties dominated American pop culture at the time. Were there good American bands? Absolutely, but their popularity came later in their careers. Even Jimi Hendrix wasn't famous until he spent time in London. Only a few bands like The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, the Beach Boys, and Bob Dylan et al had any impact on the music scene at that time. Even so, as far as pop culture goes, the Beatles completely dominated the scene during their existence. As a footnote, all the "Britsh Invasion" groups music was derivative of American Blues. Everybody got rich on the blues except those people that actually created it, including the white american pop artists of the fifties. The same is true of jazz, for the most part. Of course then you must go back to gospel, then traditional religious music, and finally to classical music and the foundations of modern formal western music. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

08-11-2002, 04:38 PM	#116
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yes. Alot of the so-called Brit invasion "stole" traditionals from the black blues/jazz singers. I'm sure I could pull a few examples of the Beatles doing this, if I weren't so lazy. But you get the idea. PS Ssssshhhh! about the plutonium. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-11-2002, 07:29 PM	#118
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yes Sgt Peppers was entirely original... BUT... check out their first couple of albums. Most of them are traditionals. Their very foundations lie in being inspired by Little Richard, etc. And while it was good publicity for the blues movement, in many cases the white-icised version of it completely overshadowed the black version. Manfred Mann, anyone? sickened look __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-11-2002, 08:37 PM	#119
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	oo... entirely original. That is brave. Jefferson Airplane's "Bathing at Baxter's" was released 4 months prior. There were many psychedelic bands before Sgt. P's was released. They did it bigger and better, but first...? Screaming Lord Sutch had long hair in 1962. You didn't like the Pat Boone versions then, either, eh? __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

08-11-2002, 08:55 PM	#120
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	No, not the concept of psychedelia - that was intro'd on Revolver/Rubber Soul as well (Tomorrow never knows, Norwegian Wood)... Plus they were "inspired" by Pet Sounds. No, I was talking about the concept album... but then again, I think I might be talking out my ass again. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 08-11-2002 at 08:56 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
America and Its Culture	hectorberlioz	General Messages	90	02-23-2007 02:27 PM
The N-word and ghetto sadness/stupidity	The Telcontarion	General Messages	39	02-20-2007 12:45 PM
hobbit culture	imrahil	Middle Earth	11	10-09-2004 02:50 PM
If you like Japanese culture, langauge, anime, etc	afro-elf	General Messages	17	10-11-2003 03:50 PM
European City of Culture	Draken	General Messages	11	06-15-2003 10:59 AM