Women in LOTR - Page 6

***azalea*** · 06-09-2002, 08:00 PM

I have doubts that a mere wraith spell could have that enormous an effect on a Nazgul. I think it was more the blow combined with the spell, it momentarily threw him off and Eowyn slew him. It was a joint effort, but I think Eowyn was meant to kill him.

Stalker in the Starlight · 06-20-2002, 02:58 PM

Oh boy...I remember having a discussion EXACTLY like this at the 'downs...ahem:

Quote:

But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the habuerk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee.

Dissection: The Witch-King fell forward and yelled, and his potential death blow [to Eowyn] went wide, and his mace went to the ground. Merry stabbed the sinew of his knee from the back. Logic tells us that this would obviously cause the receipiant of the blow to fall forward, to the ground.

Quote:

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse, But glad woul he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and CHEIF among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar AND ITS SORCERER KING.

So, the blade obviously contained spells that were especially for the threat of Angmar (the Witch-king). This suggests that Merry's blade did more than simply cause the Witch-king to stumble, as seen in the next quote:

Quote:

No other blade...would have dealt that foe (the Witch-king) a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, BREAKING THER SPELL that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

Now, the REAL question, and where the debat of 'Who killed the Witch-king?' (to me) lies is in the key words in the final quote:

Quote:

...breaking the spell that knit his (the Witch-king) unseen sinews to HIS will

Who is the final 'he'? If He is Sauron, than this suggests that Merry's sword was the one that broke the spell Sauron had placed upon the Witch-king (and all the Nazgul, once they had succumbed to the Rings), perhaps turning the Undead One into something that could be killed physically (by Eowyn). But if He is simply the Witch-king, all Merry's blow did was to distract him, giving Eowyn time to finish him off. And, as Aragorn says later in the Houses of Healing, of Eowyn:

Quote:

"...the cheif evil comes through the sword-arm..."

So...Eowyn definitley stabbed something. Those are the facts as I see them, and the possibilities. You are free to make your own guesses.

Though personally...I'd like to think it was Eowyn.

Christiana · 06-22-2002, 12:07 AM

Ok,2 clear up the man thing,it specifically saysin the App.s that Eowyn was a shield maiden.

Anastasia · 06-23-2002, 04:20 PM

Going back to the original question, it strikes me that Tolkien's women are there to represent goodness and purity and beauty, which is probably what he was brought up to believe all those decades ago (bless).

Elbereth · 08-23-2002, 10:18 AM

I never wished there was a women in the fellowship. For one thing, if you were to add a women, you'd have to add an equal amount of men and women, and nine can't be split evenly, and you can't have under or over nine because of the nine Riders. Sorry if I'm being too technical. I would have hated it if the women in the fellowship fell in love with a man in the fellowship,it would compltely ruin the book. As for strong women in LOTR, you have Eowyn (obviously), Galadriel (she is the ruler of a kingdom, holder of a Ring, wise than her husband, and the oldest person in ME besdies the Wizards), Arwen, Goldberry and Lobeila Sackville-Baggins. I say Arwen because she was very wise and becomes a Queen, Goldberry because, as Tolkien himself said, she represents the changing of the seasons, and Lobelia because of all things she did not represent purity, but stubborness! (even if it was annoying stubborness.

In the Silmarillion, there are lots of strong women, Aredhal, Luthien, and Melion being the obvious ones. Feanor had a wife who was the only one he would listen to because she was wiser (Nerdanel, I think was her name). then you have the Valar, Yavanna and Varda and Nienna being numbered among the Avatar. Varda especailly is powerful and you can see that the Elves in ME look to her (as Elbereth) more than Manwe her husband.

Celebrian · 09-01-2002, 11:59 AM

I don't wish there was a woman in the fellowship, it wouldn't have seemed as real- women didn't fight. I do wish there were more women who did something important!

Christiana · 09-02-2002, 03:28 PM

well,Sauron was defeated by Luthien.

entss89 · 09-02-2002, 03:30 PM

I THINK THAT WOMEN WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BROKE A NAIL!NO WAY!

Eruviel Greenleaf · 09-02-2002, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by entss89
I THINK THAT WOMEN WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BROKE A NAIL!NO WAY!

I am almost--not quite, but almost--offended that you think all women are like that. I mean, what about Eowyn? And that's just in LotR

Christiana · 09-02-2002, 03:39 PM

hmmm...ive boken nails many times,and it dosnt inconvinience me in the least.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 09-02-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christiana
hmmm...ive boken nails many times,and it dosnt inconvinience me in the least.

I don't think I've ever broken a nail--mostly because my nails are always bitten down a lot

Christiana · 09-02-2002, 03:52 PM

well,my nails are too,but when a bastetball smashes into ur finger,its not hard.

Khadrane · 09-02-2002, 03:56 PM

I wouldn't want a woman in the Fellowship. It just wouldn't seem right. Like Elbereth said, there are plenty of awesome female characters in Middle Earth.

On a side note, I think it was Eowyn who killed the Witch-King.

Poetess of the Dawn · 09-02-2002, 05:35 PM

I don't think a woman in the fellowship would have been a good idea but I do wish that they had had more women doing more important things in it instead of sitting around making a cloak like Arwen did. That character really bugged me because all she did was sit around and act all beautiful!
Eowyn rocked in lotr though. I thought her charcter was pretty cool!!

Also,entss89, not all women are like that. I don't have any nails to break anyway, I bite them all off. (bad habbit I've had since I was like four )

Christiana · 09-02-2002, 07:05 PM

welcome to the Moot!

cassiopeia · 09-02-2002, 10:21 PM

Quote:

I THINK THAT WOMEN WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BROKE A NAIL!NO WAY!

It doesn't bother me if I break a nail, I just file it back into shape.

Arwen didn't do much, but Elrond didn't do much either (in the War of the Ring).

BeardofPants · 09-02-2002, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by entss89
I THINK THAT WOMEN WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BROKE A NAIL!NO WAY!

You're an annoying smelly little orc, ain't you?

I can't believe the debate just got dragged down to that level.

Sween · 09-03-2002, 04:41 AM

if the world of middle earth is anything like the world of today a woman would of been fine in the fellowship. Its a proven fact that women make better soldiers. they are better shots and more willing to take life.

women are also more fleet of feet than men which is good. A woman elf should infact be really hard. Arwen judging by her blood line (she has maia in here for the stupid people like ents89) arwen should be one powerful elf.

***Earniel*** · 09-03-2002, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Its a proven fact that women make better soldiers. they are better shots and more willing to take life.

It is? It's the first thing I hear about it though.

I agree with Elbereth.There are a lot more women in LOTR than you actually realise: Lobelia, Goldberry, Arwen, Galadriel, Eowyn, Rosie .....

They just have smaller parts compared to the rest. But they are there. I don't think a woman in the fellowship itself would have been so grand. For one: I didn't really miss one. Two: Women didn't go around waving bows and swords at that time. So I doubt a female elven archer would have been logical.

BeardofPants · 09-03-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel

It is? It's the first thing I hear about it though.

I don't know how true it is, but I've read this as well. That women are more ruthless at taking life if they have to, and they make more accurate shots.

06-22-2002, 12:07 AM	#103
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Ok,2 clear up the man thing,it specifically saysin the App.s that Eowyn was a shield maiden. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-23-2002, 04:20 PM	#104
Anastasia Hobbit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: village in the East Midlands, England Posts: 18	Going back to the original question, it strikes me that Tolkien's women are there to represent goodness and purity and beauty, which is probably what he was brought up to believe all those decades ago (bless). __________________ "Went all the way to the Gap of Rohan only to find there is no Gap in Rohan."

08-23-2002, 10:18 AM	#105
Elbereth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 122	I never wished there was a women in the fellowship. For one thing, if you were to add a women, you'd have to add an equal amount of men and women, and nine can't be split evenly, and you can't have under or over nine because of the nine Riders. Sorry if I'm being too technical. I would have hated it if the women in the fellowship fell in love with a man in the fellowship,it would compltely ruin the book. As for strong women in LOTR, you have Eowyn (obviously), Galadriel (she is the ruler of a kingdom, holder of a Ring, wise than her husband, and the oldest person in ME besdies the Wizards), Arwen, Goldberry and Lobeila Sackville-Baggins. I say Arwen because she was very wise and becomes a Queen, Goldberry because, as Tolkien himself said, she represents the changing of the seasons, and Lobelia because of all things she did not represent purity, but stubborness! (even if it was annoying stubborness. In the Silmarillion, there are lots of strong women, Aredhal, Luthien, and Melion being the obvious ones. Feanor had a wife who was the only one he would listen to because she was wiser (Nerdanel, I think was her name). then you have the Valar, Yavanna and Varda and Nienna being numbered among the Avatar. Varda especailly is powerful and you can see that the Elves in ME look to her (as Elbereth) more than Manwe her husband. __________________ A! Elbereth Gilithoniel! 'Fate goes ever as fate must.' Beowulf (Seamus Haney's translation) FRODO LIVES!!!

09-01-2002, 11:59 AM	#106
Celebrian Enting Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 75	I don't wish there was a woman in the fellowship, it wouldn't have seemed as real- women didn't fight. I do wish there were more women who did something important! __________________ All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. Tall ships and tall kings, three times three. What brought they form the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones and one white tree.

09-02-2002, 03:28 PM	#107
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	well,Sauron was defeated by Luthien. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-09-2002, 08:00 PM	#101
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I have doubts that a mere wraith spell could have that enormous an effect on a Nazgul. I think it was more the blow combined with the spell, it momentarily threw him off and Eowyn slew him. It was a joint effort, but I think Eowyn was meant to kill him.

09-02-2002, 03:30 PM	#108
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	NOPE I THINK THAT WOMEN WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BROKE A NAIL!NO WAY!

09-02-2002, 03:39 PM	#110
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	hmmm...ive boken nails many times,and it dosnt inconvinience me in the least. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

09-02-2002, 03:52 PM	#112
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	well,my nails are too,but when a bastetball smashes into ur finger,its not hard. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

09-02-2002, 03:56 PM	#113
Khadrane Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth (I wish) Posts: 670	I wouldn't want a woman in the Fellowship. It just wouldn't seem right. Like Elbereth said, there are plenty of awesome female characters in Middle Earth. On a side note, I think it was Eowyn who killed the Witch-King. __________________ Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE

09-02-2002, 05:35 PM	#114
Poetess of the Dawn Sapling Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Grey Havens Posts: 2	I don't think a woman in the fellowship would have been a good idea but I do wish that they had had more women doing more important things in it instead of sitting around making a cloak like Arwen did. That character really bugged me because all she did was sit around and act all beautiful! Eowyn rocked in lotr though. I thought her charcter was pretty cool!! Also,entss89, not all women are like that. I don't have any nails to break anyway, I bite them all off. (bad habbit I've had since I was like four )

09-02-2002, 07:05 PM	#115
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	welcome to the Moot! __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

09-03-2002, 04:41 AM	#118
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	if the world of middle earth is anything like the world of today a woman would of been fine in the fellowship. Its a proven fact that women make better soldiers. they are better shots and more willing to take life. women are also more fleet of feet than men which is good. A woman elf should infact be really hard. Arwen judging by her blood line (she has maia in here for the stupid people like ents89) arwen should be one powerful elf. __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

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