Feminism - Page 6

afro-elf · 10-25-2002, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Let me just get my combat boots out so I can butt kick for justice.

*boot*

BoP The Hausfrau Bane

Sween · 10-25-2002, 05:38 AM

To say that women should take the lead in raising kids is very stupid. If i hadnt had my dad i would have someone to teach me footie, the fine art of the pub conversation and i would never of had decent meals because god bless my mum shes is serervlt limited as a chef

Dunadan · 10-25-2002, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Let me just get my combat boots out so I can butt kick for justice.

*boot*

....WHAAAAAAAT?

Dunadan · 10-25-2002, 07:51 AM

Interesting to hear what people think about raising kids. If bringing up kids is a woman's job then it's largely a learned behaviour. I split from my wife when my son was 2, and had to learn it from scratch. I hadn't any of that cultural priming. However, it is possible and really, really rewarding.

Oh and another thing. This idea also produces men who miss out on important aspects of the most amazing experience you can have in life. They may not know it but it's true, and tragic. On the other hand, as long as we believe that child-rearing is "women's work" then, surprise surprise, we'll produce men who are capable of abandoning their responsibilities.

Of course, that's no excuse, and I too have boundless admiration for the single (mostly) women who raise families on their own. However, things are changing. I know quite a few men who now do most of the childcare while their partner does most of the earning.

Which answers one of my complaints against feminism: I'm all for equality in the workplace, but what about in the not-work place? Having been through a divorce, the entire presumption throughout (by all parties: my ex, both families, lawyers, the courts, legal precedent) was that my wife could sit around on her arse while I went out to work. Why can't she enjoy the privilege of slogging her guts out at a job that she hates so that I can sit at home sipping coffee and playing with my son?

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about that...

Lizra · 10-25-2002, 11:19 AM

I think she should Dunadan, You rock too! If I could figure out a way to make enough money, I would love to let my husband stay home and be with our young boy. He drives me crazy!

Aeryn · 10-25-2002, 04:11 PM

I happen to agree with Mirial, and I was raised largely by my father.
Sween- its rude to say anything is stupid! Yes, sweeny, I am a hypocrite.

Jadera · 10-25-2002, 08:16 PM

Way to go, Dunadan, it's great that you're raising your son! If anything happened to my mom, I don't think my dad and I would survive. ^_^;; Not that I have that long left to be 'raised', but it would still be tough. Not to say that my dad doesn't love me, he does, and we get along, just not in the 'parental' aspect of things. I admire single dads.

Dads should get more time with their kids, but such is the cycle of society, I guess. I plan to be a stay at home mom, but that's after I've had a career in order to contribute to the nest egg.

mirrille · 10-25-2002, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dunadan
Which answers one of my complaints against feminism: I'm all for equality in the workplace, but what about in the not-work place? Having been through a divorce, the entire presumption throughout (by all parties: my ex, both families, lawyers, the courts, legal precedent) was that my wife could sit around on her arse while I went out to work. Why can't she enjoy the privilege of slogging her guts out at a job that she hates so that I can sit at home sipping coffee and playing with my son?

You know what? That sounds to me like a direct consequence of the societal expectation that childrearing is women's work and earning the money is the man's work. I don't call that equality either. Another reason for changing our rigid attitudes about familial roles, wouldn't you say?

***azalea*** · 10-25-2002, 11:01 PM

Dunedan, in that case I think whoever has the higher earning potential should be the "earner." The other should, in fairness, try to get a part time job or some such to bring in extra money. But I think it is noble that a person would care about their child's well-being so much that they would do the breadwinning so that the child could be at home with a parent during the day. I know of situations where the other parent won't allow that situation and insists that the "custodial" parent get a job as well, and the child, who wouldn't otherwise have had to go to daycare, has to.

Oh, and I'm sure you meant that loosely, but I can assure you that as a homemaker, I'm not exactly sitting on my arse all day drinking coffee

(although I do get to use the bathroom whenever I need to, something I couldn't do as a teacher! I just have people standing on my feet while I do it.

).

Dunadan · 10-28-2002, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
Oh, and I'm sure you meant that loosely, but I can assure you that as a homemaker, I'm not exactly sitting on my arse all day drinking coffee (although I do get to use the bathroom whenever I need to, something I couldn't do as a teacher! I just have people standing on my feet while I do it. ).

Glad that you took it in the spirit it was intended. I know that it is no holiday raising kids, and no easy option to stay at home. I can remember well the feeling of escape when I went to work when the bairn had colic and was howling 24/7...

I agree that this is a result of the imbalanced situation, and don't spend too much time maoning about it. However, it is worth noting that feminism (or, rather, proactive equality) has brought benefits to everyone, it's just that some institutions (like the law) are slower to catch up than others.

Both partners working part-time is the way forward! I'm going to try that this time.

cheers, and thanks for all the nice messages

***azalea*** · 10-28-2002, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dunadan

Both partners working part-time is the way forward!

The only problem there -- no medical insurance.

I think it's all about every person having choices. It doesn't matter who takes care of the kids during the day (mom or dad), as long as they have support from the other parent.

The BEST thing would be if companies wouldn't expect their employees to work 60 hours a week for pittance. 40 hours a week for pittance is okay, but 60? That's stepping over the line!

Elessar · 10-28-2002, 03:07 PM

thats a bit harsh...

Feminism should be a more followed thang though. I can kick-box!!!! But that girl is taking it a bit toooo far- just find some other fit girl (or boy) next time- who dosen't take things to extreeems!

Dunadan · 10-28-2002, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
The only problem there -- no medical insurance.

Come and join the EU! Part-time employees have to be given the same rights as full-time.

But it's a good point: if you're getting screwed then having choice is a luxury.

Telperion · 10-31-2002, 08:13 PM

I think both parents should raise children jointly. i mean, i can't say if my dad had a larger part in raisinf me than my mom.

Humming bird · 11-22-2002, 09:11 PM

A girl should not expect special privileges because of her sex but neither should she adjust to prejudice and discrimination.

gimli-son-of-gloin13 · 12-13-2002, 04:58 PM

i say that let the feminists be feminists. but i sure wouldnt want to be one. i like the, men opening doors for us and (some thing that alot of people don't know) how men are supposed to walk on the outside when they are walking on the sidewalk with a women kinda thing. it shows a gentleman

afro-elf · 12-15-2003, 09:32 PM

This was on amazon:

Dangerous Error, June 19, 2003
Reviewer: carolyn sanchez
My husband recently bought "30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary" and I casually opened it to a page at random. On p. 287, there is a "test" with a question which reads: Is a lecherous man a misogynist? True or false. Shockingly, the answer, in the book, is false. What a sad commentary on the author, the editors and all the "positive" reviewers that they think that a man given to excessive self-indulgence with women "loves" them when such obsessive behavior is antithetical to true love, in which the well-being of the loved person is paramount. Of course, lechery is a close cousin to physical abuse. And, that's the danger in this vocabulary error.

The sad things is that she is criticizing “30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary” and posted it on Word Power Made Easy: The Complete Handbook for Building a Superior Vocabulary.

I am curious to your thoughts on her umbrage.

hectorberlioz · 12-15-2003, 11:38 PM

I think Radagast had an excellant post on the first page.
I'm for equality of women, but when feminism gets extreme, I start thinking angry thoughts....

if women had governed the world, there would be no men would there?

Ruinel · 12-16-2003, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
... if women had governed the world, there would be no men would there?

Ooooh yeah... we'd have milked your testes for all it's sperm and then executed the lot of you.

Mercutio · 12-16-2003, 12:10 AM

In the LoTR movies, IMO Jack son portrayed the male and female elves too similar (sometimes you can't tell a difference). To make the men "beautiful" or "pretty" he had to make them look feminine. I don't think that's what Tolkien intended. Any thoughts?

10-25-2002, 05:38 AM	#102
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	To say that women should take the lead in raising kids is very stupid. If i hadnt had my dad i would have someone to teach me footie, the fine art of the pub conversation and i would never of had decent meals because god bless my mum shes is serervlt limited as a chef __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

10-25-2002, 07:51 AM	#104
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	Interesting to hear what people think about raising kids. If bringing up kids is a woman's job then it's largely a learned behaviour. I split from my wife when my son was 2, and had to learn it from scratch. I hadn't any of that cultural priming. However, it is possible and really, really rewarding. Oh and another thing. This idea also produces men who miss out on important aspects of the most amazing experience you can have in life. They may not know it but it's true, and tragic. On the other hand, as long as we believe that child-rearing is "women's work" then, surprise surprise, we'll produce men who are capable of abandoning their responsibilities. Of course, that's no excuse, and I too have boundless admiration for the single (mostly) women who raise families on their own. However, things are changing. I know quite a few men who now do most of the childcare while their partner does most of the earning. Which answers one of my complaints against feminism: I'm all for equality in the workplace, but what about in the not-work place? Having been through a divorce, the entire presumption throughout (by all parties: my ex, both families, lawyers, the courts, legal precedent) was that my wife could sit around on her arse while I went out to work. Why can't she enjoy the privilege of slogging her guts out at a job that she hates so that I can sit at home sipping coffee and playing with my son? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about that... Last edited by Dunadan : 10-25-2002 at 07:53 AM.

10-25-2002, 11:19 AM	#105
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I think she should Dunadan, You rock too! If I could figure out a way to make enough money, I would love to let my husband stay home and be with our young boy. He drives me crazy! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

10-25-2002, 04:11 PM	#106
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	I happen to agree with Mirial, and I was raised largely by my father. Sween- its rude to say anything is stupid! Yes, sweeny, I am a hypocrite. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-25-2002, 08:16 PM	#107
Jadera Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 205	Way to go, Dunadan, it's great that you're raising your son! If anything happened to my mom, I don't think my dad and I would survive. ^_^;; Not that I have that long left to be 'raised', but it would still be tough. Not to say that my dad doesn't love me, he does, and we get along, just not in the 'parental' aspect of things. I admire single dads. Dads should get more time with their kids, but such is the cycle of society, I guess. I plan to be a stay at home mom, but that's after I've had a career in order to contribute to the nest egg. __________________ Whaaaaaaaaaat?? ~Chivalry isn't dead, it just transferred to women~

10-25-2002, 11:01 PM	#109
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Dunedan, in that case I think whoever has the higher earning potential should be the "earner." The other should, in fairness, try to get a part time job or some such to bring in extra money. But I think it is noble that a person would care about their child's well-being so much that they would do the breadwinning so that the child could be at home with a parent during the day. I know of situations where the other parent won't allow that situation and insists that the "custodial" parent get a job as well, and the child, who wouldn't otherwise have had to go to daycare, has to. Oh, and I'm sure you meant that loosely, but I can assure you that as a homemaker, I'm not exactly sitting on my arse all day drinking coffee (although I do get to use the bathroom whenever I need to, something I couldn't do as a teacher! I just have people standing on my feet while I do it. ).

10-28-2002, 03:07 PM	#112
Elessar Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I live in the citadel, Minas Tirith, Gondor, Middle Earth. Posts: 5	thats a bit harsh... Feminism should be a more followed thang though. I can kick-box!!!! But that girl is taking it a bit toooo far- just find some other fit girl (or boy) next time- who dosen't take things to extreeems! __________________ namarie... ~Elessarxxx~ ~you drink to much, it makes me drink just the same~

10-31-2002, 08:13 PM	#114
Telperion Enting Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 78	I think both parents should raise children jointly. i mean, i can't say if my dad had a larger part in raisinf me than my mom. __________________ Wherever you go, there you are. Aim for the stars, if you miss, you'll at least land on the moon! He who is made of air should not accuse the wind. My mind wanders. "Not all those who wander are lost." Therefore, my mind is not lost. Now, my question to those of you who doubt my sanity is this: How can someone who has not lost their mind be insane?

11-22-2002, 09:11 PM	#115
Humming bird Sapling Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 13	A girl should not expect special privileges because of her sex but neither should she adjust to prejudice and discrimination. __________________ Where are we going, From where we have been? How will we get there? And do you know when? Paths that are travelled And paths that are sought. Great expectations, Are sometimes for nought. Goals that we set, And prices are paid. Love that may flower, And flowers that fade. It seems to me sometimes, That sought after things. Are sometimes best left As matters for dreams

12-13-2002, 04:58 PM	#116
gimli-son-of-gloin13 Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Over the river and through the woods. Posts: 193	i say that let the feminists be feminists. but i sure wouldnt want to be one. i like the, men opening doors for us and (some thing that alot of people don't know) how men are supposed to walk on the outside when they are walking on the sidewalk with a women kinda thing. it shows a gentleman __________________ http://www.4degreez.com/misc/persona...sorder_test.mv Do you have any personality disorders, click here and see! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://public.findlaw.com/states_new.html Find your rights as a student!

12-15-2003, 09:32 PM	#117
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	This was on amazon: Dangerous Error, June 19, 2003 Reviewer: carolyn sanchez My husband recently bought "30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary" and I casually opened it to a page at random. On p. 287, there is a "test" with a question which reads: Is a lecherous man a misogynist? True or false. Shockingly, the answer, in the book, is false. What a sad commentary on the author, the editors and all the "positive" reviewers that they think that a man given to excessive self-indulgence with women "loves" them when such obsessive behavior is antithetical to true love, in which the well-being of the loved person is paramount. Of course, lechery is a close cousin to physical abuse. And, that's the danger in this vocabulary error. The sad things is that she is criticizing “30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary” and posted it on Word Power Made Easy: The Complete Handbook for Building a Superior Vocabulary. I am curious to your thoughts on her umbrage. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

12-15-2003, 11:38 PM	#118
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	I think Radagast had an excellant post on the first page. I'm for equality of women, but when feminism gets extreme, I start thinking angry thoughts.... if women had governed the world, there would be no men would there? __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-16-2003, 12:10 AM	#120
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	Sort of but not really... In the LoTR movies, IMO Jack son portrayed the male and female elves too similar (sometimes you can't tell a difference). To make the men "beautiful" or "pretty" he had to make them look feminine. I don't think that's what Tolkien intended. Any thoughts? __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Theology III	Earniel	General Messages	1007	07-02-2008 02:22 PM
Women in The Silmarillion	easygreen	The Silmarillion	39	04-16-2001 02:40 AM
Women	anduin	Entmoot Archive	190	10-02-2000 11:15 PM