U.S. election races...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

As far as impeaching Bush no I don’t think you will see that (unless something truly nefarious is discovered post election) but what you will probably see is hearings on the handling of the war and they’ll go after Cheney about his secret energy

..drink?

task force group

Darn!

In Maryland they have used reverse race politics to try to trick blacks into voting for the republican candidate.

*sigh* You know, I HATE it when people use race as an issue to get elected. That definitely goes to both sides. But to me, Clinton coming down here and saying "it will go beyond race" about Harold Ford jr....that to me is an element of what brings back the "race issue" and all the racism that comes with it. If we truly do NOT want to bring race into a...race, why would someone mention it? I would apply Clinton's phrase about gays in the military, something along the lines of "no say, no trouble." As soon as you say "race is not part of this race" you very well may have ignited race being part of that race.

And btw, I wouldn't swab (and I'm not saying you are, Rex) one side for voting "against someone because of his race, because he very well may be getting votes because of it.

I don't know what to say about the Michael Steele thing except this: Tennessee has been accused of having racist voters just because the majority supports Corker and because of old stereotypes about the south (which there are still some basis for, in some cases). Meanwhile nobody is accusing the same for the people in Maryland who are NOT voting for Steele.

They’ve also made deceptive campaign flyers designed to trick people into thinking certain candidates are supported when they aren’t and they have been making robo-calls to democrats late at night that seem to endorse democratic canididates but just weakly so that democrats get infuriated at being woken up and don’t vote.

Sorry, that's not a rerpublican exclusive, it's happened on both sides. Harold Ford said on an add that such and such supported him, next thing you know, the guy from that group calls this morning radio show saying that they DO NOT. I do beleive there was a similar case for the Corker campaigners...

In Virginia they are pushing the gay marriage ban hard to increase conservative turn out. The truly sad thing is that Virginia already has a man – woman definition in its constitution already so its totally unnecessary.

Well so do we...but the amendment is somthing of a "fortification" ....it's actually smart if you want to battle and keep the courts at a distance. You should be sad about it I guess...but let's not pretend here

It actually takes AWAY rights that unmarried couples already have.

I've been hearing that, but so far I haven't heard any argument to make the case...

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

So exactly how much did he lose?

Not sure. Quite a lot I know.

Who else voted today?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

Not sure. Quite a lot I know.

Who else voted today?

I did! this will mark the 3rd time I've done so and the first I've done in a non-presidential election.

[hectorberlioz]

Dang it! ...Santorum and DeWine out...

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Dang it! ...Santorum and DeWine out...

I know but Talent is looking good and Allen is up by 0.3 of a percent. Steele lost thats a tough blow, so much for affirmative action.

Edit: now its webb by a hundreth of a percent, Its a good thing you don't bite your nails hector.

[GrayMouser]

In the immortal words of Howard Dean-

YEEAAARRRRGGGHH!!!!

Gain of the House, four (maybe five) seats in Senate, plus gains in governorships and State legislatures.

It's been pointed out that in the last twenty years, the average House swing has been five seats- the exception being 1994, which gave the Republicans control for the last twelve years- so a 25-30 seat shift is a pretty sweeping repudiation of Bush/Cheney.

The Allen campaign in Virginia is already under investigation by the FBI for voter suppression (Democrat supporters being called, told they're ineligible to vote and being threatened with jail if they do try and vote; others being told-falsely- that their precincts have been changed.)

Normally, these things are swept under the rug- if you win, you're too busy going forward; if you lose, your opponents shout crybaby.

In the Virginia case, a recount will give lots of time and interest to these investigations, and may highlight those in other places- harrassing robocalls, Latinos being threatened etc.

[GrayMouser]

OTOH, to Republicans feeling a little low, remember the wisdom of Duane Thomas, on asked about the awesome significance of playing in the SuperBowl:

"So, if this is the Ultimate Game, how come they're playing it again next year?"

[rohirrim TR]

Oh yeah the after election coverage is going to go on for a long time Montana and Virginia won't be decided for a couple months probably.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

It's been pointed out that in the last twenty years, the average House swing has been five seats- the exception being 1994, which gave the Republicans control for the last twelve years- so a 25-30 seat shift is a pretty sweeping repudiation of Bush/Cheney.

It may be the repudiation for them, but it sure as heck isn't because everyone suddenly trusts democrats. We'll win both back in '08...
Don't bring too many curtains to put up, Madam Speaker.

The Allen campaign in Virginia is already under investigation by the FBI for voter suppression (Democrat supporters being called, told they're ineligible to vote and being threatened with jail if they do try and vote; others being told-falsely- that their precincts have been changed.)

What rubbish. Oh evil Republicans!...You fail to mention that the purported calls have been doubted also.


BTW Nurv, I guess this is good news?
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/...550.shtml?s=ic

[hectorberlioz]

As far as speeches go, I'm going to have to hand it to Lieberman. That man just says almost everything the right way. Ned Lamont, I'm sorry, I have to laugh...everytime I heard him on he was using that old "change" thing. I hate that stuff.

[brownjenkins]

I think it's just basically following the pattern that has always been the case in our country, a continual swing back and forth between parties. Which is a good thing. Anytime either side has been in complete control for too long, things go from bad to worse.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I think it's just basically following the pattern that has always been the case in our country, a continual swing back and forth between parties. Which is a good thing. Anytime either side has been in complete control for too long, things go from bad to worse.

Very true...and the sentiments that "this is the end of the world!" will probably always be part of the tradition as well


EDIT: Spock! For the love of money my good Vulcan, allow me to PM you!

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

And btw, I wouldn't swab (and I'm not saying you are, Rex) one side for voting "against someone because of his race, because he very well may be getting votes because of it.

I don't know what to say about the Michael Steele thing except this: Tennessee has been accused of having racist voters just because the majority supports Corker and because of old stereotypes about the south (which there are still some basis for, in some cases). Meanwhile nobody is accusing the same for the people in Maryland who are NOT voting for Steele.

The issue with Steele was not that people weren’t voting for him because he is black (like it is in TN) but that the republicans were dangling him in front of the black predominantly democratic populations of Maryland essentially saying vote for him hes one of YOU guys after all and that’s pretty lame and just as bad I think. It uses race only as a bait for a vote and assumes blacks are too stupid to vote on issues instead of racial identity. In fact they actually created flyers saying Steele was the “Democratic choice” of certain black office holders (current and former) including Mfume and others. The flyer was immediately panned and all but one of those listed on it as endorsing Steele vigorously denied it. Now last I checked you didn’t see any democrats making flyers saying Carden was the “Republican choice” because he was white like you.

Well so do we...but the amendment is somthing of a "fortification" ....it's actually smart if you want to battle and keep the courts at a distance. You should be sad about it I guess...but let's not pretend here

The amendment is a waste of time because its an attempt to avoid out of state marriages being recognized in Virginia basically. But the concept of recognizing interstate marriages is a constitutional statute on the FEDERAL level not the state. So you would have a hard time superseding it with a state amendment and its guaranteed to wind up in court and most likely rejected in the end because of that. But that’s fine with the republicans. It gives them yet another opportunity to use it for their political gain. Thank god it didn’t quite give Allen enough of a boost in yesterdays elections though. If you ask me its just a matter of time before Northern Virginia tips the scale on the rest of the state and Democratic representation becomes the norm. The citizens of NoVa are sick of footing the bill for everyones projects in the state and then getting turned down for stuff they want in Fairfax/Arlington/Alexandria etc. And as the suburbs grow and sprawl continues the numbers will more and more favor the democrats in VA.

I've been hearing that, but so far I haven't heard any argument to make the case...

Well then you haven’t been listening because its quite clear that Virginia's particular amendment is written so broadly that it could easily justify taking away many of the everyday rights and privileges now enjoyed by all sorts of unmarried people living together, not just gays. This is a point that’s agreed on by many many lawyers who have looked over the language. And do you really think that’s a coincidence? No it’s a convenient opportunity to attack not just gays but people “living in sin” and other heathens. The one glimmer of sun in this result is that unlike other states this one wasn’t a landslide victory. It only passed with 57% of the vote compared to 75% or so in other states in past elections. And this is a southern state so that says something right there. Hopefully homophobic backlash against gays is subsiding somewhat. Its certainly going to happen over time. The question is how long will it take.

[hectorberlioz]

Holy Cow, Rumsfeld is resigning!...just saw a pic of him, and he looks quite happy about it...

I wonder if they'll bring Colin Powell back? Different stuff, if they did...it could be the stuff that works.

Rex, I'll get back to you tonight when I have more time...

EDIT: Not Powell. Robert Gates, former CIA head...

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Holy Cow, Rumsfeld is resigning!...just saw a pic of him, and he looks quite happy about it...

I wonder if they'll bring Colin Powell back? Different stuff, if they did...it could be the stuff that works.

Rex, I'll get back to you tonight when I have more time...

EDIT: Not Powell. Robert Gates, former CIA head...

Whoa! I just heard about it before logging on tonight.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

Oh yeah the after election coverage is going to go on for a long time Montana and Virginia won't be decided for a couple months probably.

Well it sounds like Allen is conceding and they are officially giving the election to Webb which of course means that the Dems now hold both the House and the Senate.

The best thing about this? Bush has now officially been castrated politically and legislatively. He can veto and piss and moan but he wont have any agenda clout from now on in his presidency. In other words he is much more limited on any further damage he can do.

Note to democrats: As a recognized "liberal" here I think I am in a position to issue a warning to all those of like mind and/or who call themselves a democrat. DONT GLOAT. Thats right. Shut the hell up. You had 20 minutes or so to celebrate but now its time to get to work and be sober about it. There was enough gloating and preening here two years ago after the great "moral revolution" in 2004. Dont lower yourself to such pathetic ego pumping and chest thumping as the republicans did then. This wasnt any kind of revolution at all. It was a signal to Bush that the public doesn’t like his policies and how he handles things. But in the end these are all still just politicians after all and the problems in the world are still extremely tough to deal with.

Lets hope Pelosi and gang are sincere when they say they really want to work with all parties to get things done and dont follow the Hastert-Delay strong-arm/my-way-or-the-highway form of governing which put us into this mess to begin with. The temptation will be to do that for revenge. They will really need to resist that or they will doom themselves for 08...

[brownjenkins]

And please don't spend as much money as those Republicans did.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

And please don't spend as much money as those Republicans did.

You know who the models of spend where before them? They put new meaning in the word, but they didn't invent it

...And don't hope that the Dems are going to be much moderate in it...

I'm not sure I can take much more of this "bipartisanship" talk. It just never happens.

The big news for me is the resignation of Rumsfeld. That to me is a bigger deal than anything else...
I liked Rumsfeld, but I can see why it's time for a switchover to something new. Not to mention, if Rumsfeld had stayed on, the dems would leap at his throat...more trouble than it'd be worth. He definitely looked happy about resigning...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

The issue with Steele was not that people weren’t voting for him because he is black (like it is in TN) but that the republicans were dangling him in front of the black predominantly democratic populations of Maryland essentially saying vote for him hes one of YOU guys after all and that’s pretty lame and just as bad I think. It uses race only as a bait for a vote and assumes blacks are too stupid to vote on issues instead of racial identity. In fact they actually created flyers saying Steele was the “Democratic choice” of certain black office holders (current and former) including Mfume and others. The flyer was immediately panned and all but one of those listed on it as endorsing Steele vigorously denied it. Now last I checked you didn’t see any democrats making flyers saying Carden was the “Republican choice” because he was white like you.

Well, we agree on this, so we should probably shake hands

Thank god it didn’t quite give Allen enough of a boost in yesterdays elections though. If you ask me its just a matter of time before Northern Virginia tips the scale on the rest of the state and Democratic representation becomes the norm. The citizens of NoVa are sick of footing the bill for everyones projects in the state and then getting turned down for stuff they want in Fairfax/Arlington/Alexandria etc. And as the suburbs grow and sprawl continues the numbers will more and more favor the democrats in VA.

So you don't believe this election was a spanking for Republicans, but that it was a generous handover to the Dems? I'm not so sure. I think the Reps will take back the house (hopefully with fresh blood) in 08.

Well then you haven’t been listening because its quite clear that Virginia's particular amendment is written so broadly that it could easily justify taking away many of the everyday rights and privileges now enjoyed by all sorts of unmarried people living together, not just gays. This is a point that’s agreed on by many many lawyers who have looked over the language.

Lawyers and language....yeah, I can see something going on there
Seriously though, most amendments are pretty "broadly" written, you know that, and then they have some very specific tag-alongs.
I highly doubt that just because of the broad language, that married couples are going to lose anything...

And do you really think that’s a coincidence? No it’s a convenient opportunity to attack not just gays but people “living in sin” and other heathens.

Huh? I have the hardest time comprehending how widely you view this issue. If you're saying something along the lines of "Christians want to persecute people that aren't like them" then I think you're off the wall.

The one glimmer of sun in this result is that unlike other states this one wasn’t a landslide victory. It only passed with 57% of the vote compared to 75% or so in other states in past elections. And this is a southern state so that says something right there.

Hopefully homophobic backlash against gays is subsiding somewhat. Its certainly going to happen over time. The question is how long will it take.

...I think you'll just have to go with the flow of fatalistic evolution taking it's natural course...

[hectorberlioz]

Here comes the Democrat "new course" in Iraq, no course at all, but pulling the levers for Iran's takeover....

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/...021.shtml?s=ic

Let's all hold our breath...there's some serious stuff they're playing with now, if they listen to McGovern.