The Official Language Thread II

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Mari

Dutch is indeed not the most beautiful language. Lot of harsh sounds. Actually after not having spoken much Dutch for nearly a year, my throat started hurting if I spoke a -g-,-r- or a combination of them.

But our Dutch -g- is very soft, not harsh at all. Well... depending on the dialect, I suppose. Or does Japanese have no similar sound at all?

[Mari]

I'm from the north (well actually the middle, but I speak northern Dutch) where the g is harsher and the r is a sharp rolling r.
Actually my Christian name is Maria Grietje and there are very few people who can pronounce it the way it's supposed to be pronounced...

In Japan, the g is like the g in "good", so they can't pronounce the Dutch g either and their r is in between the r and the l. My language teacher keeps being frustrated with my supposed inability to say the Japanese r.

edit: Hey! You kicked me! That hurts you know!

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Mari

I'm from the north (well actually the middle, but I speak northern Dutch) where the g is harsher and the r is a sharp rolling r.
Actually my Christian name is Maria Grietje and there are very few people who can pronounce it the way it's supposed to be pronounced...

Grietje, there's a Dutch name if I have ever heard one.

One of the things I do like in Dutch is the diminuative '-je'. No other language has the quite same thing.

In Japan, the g is like the g in "good", so they can't pronounce the Dutch g either and their r is in between the r and the l. My language teacher keeps being frustrated with my supposed inability to say the Japanese r.

I'd have a hard time too to pronounce a sound between an 'r' and an 'l'. I think my tongue would end up in a knot!

edit: Hey! You kicked me! That hurts you know!

Sorry, perks of being a mod.

[Nautipus]

Hey all! Just got back from my first Arabic lesson! It was really cool, but I've got alot of work ahead of me, but I'm so exited! I really think it is a very musical language, especially in greetings. They say it like a song.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Grietje, there's a Dutch name if I have ever heard one.

One of the things I do like in Dutch is the diminuative '-je'. No other language has the quite same thing.

How does it differ from diminutive suffixes in other languages?

[Mari]

I'm not sure, but in Dutch you can make all nouns "smaller" by adding -je:
huis (house) --> huisje (little house)
kat (cat) --> katje (kitten)
etc.

Actually, griet is sometimes used as a not so nice name to call loud or slightly slutty women. Hehe, that's my name

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

How does it differ from diminutive suffixes in other languages?

Well, of all the languages I know (which I admit is not a lot, but still) none of them has a diminutive suffix which can be used to the level of '-je' in Dutch. English has '-let' but as far as I know it is only used with a few nouns, like booklet, but most of the time just 'little' is used. In French the suffix '-ton' is used in a few cases (mostly used affectionately, I also thought) but again not as widespread as '-je'. And again, in French 'petit' (little) is also more often used instead of a suffix.

Do you know any language that has a short suffix that can be used indiscriminatedly for all nouns, Gwai? If you do, I'd be most interested in hearing about it.

Originally Posted by Mari

Actually, griet is sometimes used as a not so nice name to call loud or slightly slutty women. Hehe, that's my name

I hear it mostly as a popular/slang word for girl.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Well, of all the languages I know (which I admit is not a lot, but still) none of them has a diminutive suffix which can be used to the level of '-je' in Dutch. English has '-let' but as far as I know it is only used with a few nouns, like booklet, but most of the time just 'little' is used. In French the suffix '-ton' is used in a few cases (mostly used affectionately, I also thought) but again not as widespread as '-je'. And again, in French 'petit' (little) is also more often used instead of a suffix.

Do you know any language that has a short suffix that can be used indiscriminatedly for all nouns, Gwai? If you do, I'd be most interested in hearing about it.

My Russian is a bit rusty, but as I recall it (and from what I can tell from talking to a native friend, Slovakian) have a whole slew of diminutive suffixes that can be added to pretty well any noun, "-ushka", "-ochka", "-ka", etc.

[Mari]

Well, I don't think it is used in a positive sense. To me it is on the same level as "viswijf" allthough that one is a bit older. If my grandmother talks about a "griet" it is in the way that people used to talk about ... let me think of a good example...
Ah. Take Dirty Dancing (yes the movie), and think of how your grandparents (and indeed the parents of Baby thought the same way) would have thought about the "dirty" dancing youth. They would call those girls "griet".

But Grietje is a normal, though slightly ancient name, still used in small communities. Hehe, my grandparents are from a village that was an island until a few decades ago and still everyone knows everyone. They have their own dialect, which is really weird, because it gives me a lot of trouble to speak with my greataunt or uncle in an understandable way Anyway, that's how I ended up with such an outdated name: because of the naming practices, I got my grandmothers name.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

My Russian is a bit rusty, but as I recall it (and from what I can tell from talking to a native friend, Slovakian) have a whole slew of diminutive suffixes that can be added to pretty well any noun, "-ushka", "-ochka", "-ka", etc.

Interesting, I had thought those forms were only used in personal names, as that's the only place where I've come across them. Then again, I know no Russian what so ever so this is hardly surprising.

Originally Posted by Mari

But Grietje is a normal, though slightly ancient name, still used in small communities. Hehe, my grandparents are from a village that was an island until a few decades ago and still everyone knows everyone. They have their own dialect, which is really weird, because it gives me a lot of trouble to speak with my greataunt or uncle in an understandable way Anyway, that's how I ended up with such an outdated name: because of the naming practices, I got my grandmothers name.

Would that be Friesland? I'll admit I know precious little of Dutch geography and that's the only region I know of that has a very weird, very un-Dutch-feeling dialect.

My grandparents on my mother's side also live in a small village where nearly everybody still knows everybody. It's often fun when they talk about other people like we should know them.

[Mari]

No, Urk is two provencies lower, at the southern tip of the Noordoostpolder (which is the upper part of Flevoland). It's at the same height as Overijssel.

In the village your mother is from, do they also share the same names? That's confusing isn't it? When we have a big familyparty, people ask me: Who are you from? And then I have to answer that I am the daughter of Wilka who is the daughter of Grietje and Albert and if they still don't know it, I just have to refer to the house my grandmother was born in and then everyone knows.
If you look at the male names in my family: Albert (my cousin) son of Dirk, son of Albert, son of Dirk, son of Albert and then there is an exception, but after that it continues

Question, in Belgium, do people also use a lot of very rude English swearwords when they get angry or something? Here people use so many English swearwords that you'de start wondering if we don't have enough Dutch swearwords...

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Mari

No, Urk is two provencies lower, at the southern tip of the Noordoostpolder (which is the upper part of Flevoland). It's at the same height as Overijssel.

And we learn something new every day.

In the village your mother is from, do they also share the same names? That's confusing isn't it? When we have a big familyparty, people ask me: Who are you from? And then I have to answer that I am the daughter of Wilka who is the daughter of Grietje and Albert and if they still don't know it, I just have to refer to the house my grandmother was born in and then everyone knows. If you look at the male names in my family: Albert (my cousin) son of Dirk, son of Albert, son of Dirk, son of Albert and then there is an exception, but after that it continues

No, in my gran's village, or in our family we don't have that tradition to pass on names, except in middle-names for godmothers and godfathers, who usually are (or at least used to be) related. My mother, Ingrid, was named after my granddad's favourite actress. Which caused her some grief on school, she always tells me, 'cause the nuns would find it 'not done' that she didn't have a name of a saint, which was far more usual.

My parents wanted a little more modern names for my sister and me, or at least names whose way of spelling wasn't too common. (Sarah with an 'h' at the end for example) Now no one would think twice about how we write our name and now they are just as common as any other spelling. But back then... whooo, my dad always says he nearly pulled the clark of the birth register through the window because he didn't want to write my sister's name the way my dad requested.

Question, in Belgium, do people also use a lot of very rude English swearwords when they get angry or something? Here people use so many English swearwords that you'de start wondering if we don't have enough Dutch swearwords...

Young people definitely. You hear a lot of f-words and s-words when they're upset. I've caught myself on that as well, although I am also quite fond of using the contracted 'dju' form. Dutch swearwords are far more common with older and middle-aged people, it's a pity really, because there are quite a few gems among them.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Interesting, I had thought those forms were only used in personal names, as that's the only place where I've come across them. Then again, I know no Russian what so ever so this is hardly surprising.

A good and very common word is "Babushka", or "grandmother", which literally means "little old lady".

[hectorberlioz]

Yes, I remember learning this stuff when I went a Russian Orthodox Church for the first time. Also, we called the priest's wife "Matushka".

[The last sane person]

*Directed here by Naughtypus*

Well, my Arabic skills are enough to descerne what people are trying to say, but my spoken isn't very good, and my vocabulary is limited, but I know enough to be polite and navigate around.

You speak Arabic, eh Nauti?

[Nerdanel]

I'd love to learn Arabic - a friend of mine (who's originally from Lebanon) has tried to teach me a few words, but I'd really like to know more about the language itself.. I quite like the sound of it.

[Earniel]

My sister is learning Arabic (her third year) and how she manages to make head of tail out of their written language, I have absolutely no clue. I've had a look at her course notes and all my untrained eye can see is a mass of very similar wriggly lines. But unlike her, I'm also not sure what I'd use it for even if I knew the language. (Then again, my German isn't much practically used either, if used at all, these days.)

[The last sane person]

Now, see, I can READ arabic, just like someone can english can read spanish, because the characters are similar (*However Farsi has about 3 or 4 more characters that they do not) but I cant really make heads or tails out of what the written words mean (usually).

I can't say I like the sound of normal everyday Arabic, but the style used for poetry which is older, I do like, its a bit softer and the pronounciations are different.

Which, actually, is why the Qura'an is meant to be recited in almost a song style, since back then, most of the tribal people could not read.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I want to learn Arabic, if simply because the alphabet is the most beautiful one I know of.

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

*Directed here by Naughtypus*

Well, my Arabic skills are enough to descerne what people are trying to say, but my spoken isn't very good, and my vocabulary is limited, but I know enough to be polite and navigate around.

You speak Arabic, eh Nauti?

Only a little, certaily less than you. I'm currently taking a class, and am only now being able to conjugate the verbs. But I've only had three classes, so that's good to me. I've almost gotten the alphabet down pat.

I really like it as a language, what bout you?