Blame Fëanor - Page 6

Embladyne · 01-31-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

Hey, question - is Feanor responsible for anything Good? Or just bad?

I'm pretty sure the point of this thread was to point out how he was responsible for bad things. But....make him responsible for what you will...

Pytt · 02-01-2005, 04:34 PM

I'll guess doing good things is not cool

and I don't think this will be the best place to say if he did, you would be slaughtered like a chicken in a foxfarm

Elemmírë · 02-01-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

Sorry Ellemire, I was out sharpening my kinslaying equipment

and recharging a silmaril or three!
Right who do you want me to whack in the head with the first one?

And it is NOT Feanor's fault!( whatever it is

)I'll take the blame , I usually do

Oh, yes. Pytt is quite correct. We're claiming that everything is Fëanor's fault.

Please try to refute us... this is getting too easy! :0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

Hey, question - is Feanor responsible for anything Good? Or just bad?

A good question, CC. Looking at this from a more... erm, serious, perspective, I would have to say that even Morgoth was responsible for good things (unintentionally, of course

). I'd bring the same judgement over to Fëanor.

It would be folly to say he was not responsible for anything good. Despite the incredible evil that came out of the Return, I don't think it can be claimed that no good came of it. Fëanor would therefore be as responsible for the good as for the evil.

But, in any case, I think that the evil far outweighs the good.

Kellquenti · 02-01-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Oh, yes. Pytt is quite correct. We're claiming that everything is Fëanor's fault.

Please try to refute us... this is getting too easy! :0

A good question, CC. Looking at this from a more... erm, serious, perspective, I would have to say that even Morgoth was responsible for good things (unintentionally, of course

). I'd bring the same judgement over to Fëanor.

It would be folly to say he was not responsible for anything good. Despite the incredible evil that came out of the Return, I don't think it can be claimed that no good came of it. Fëanor would therefore be as responsible for the good as for the evil.
But, in any case, I think that the evil far outweighs the good.

I refute everything!!!

Feanor is just a scapegoat for all the petty , pathetic jealous nonentities that marred Arda or wherever, Just because he had the guts to stand up and say "RUDE WORDS TO YOU LOT!!!"
he gets slammed for it

Pity some other nancy Elves didn't do the same, or dare I join Feanor in defying the Valar(which I do!!!

) some of them!!!! Mr Manwe was not exactly pro active in his ideas , I shall probably be cursed with the same curse as Feanor (GOOD I DON'T CARE!!! ) I have a silmaril ready to whack the nearest non Feanor senseless!!

(Bad day at the forge today!!

)

Elemmírë · 02-01-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

I refute everything!!!

Feanor is just a scapegoat for all the petty , pathetic jealous nonentities that marred Arda or wherever, Just because he had the guts to stand up and say "RUDE WORDS TO YOU LOT!!!"
he gets slammed for it

Pity some other nancy Elves didn't do the same, or dare I join Feanor in defying the Valar(which I do!!!

) some of them!!!! Mr Manwe was not exactly pro active in his ideas , I shall probably be cursed with the same curse as Feanor (GOOD I DON'T CARE!!! ) I have a silmaril ready to whack the nearest non Feanor senseless!!

(Bad day at the forge today!!

)

Are you okay, Kell?

Anyway, he did a lot more than just say rude words. Let's see... rebellion, murder, treason... The list goes on until he finally died.

Attalus · 02-01-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Are you okay, Kell?

Anyway, he did a lot more than just say rude words. Let's see... rebellion, murder, treason... The list goes on until he finally died.

Uselessly, stupidly. He had about as much notion of tactics as a year-old bull calf. "Hey, there's the big, impregnible fortress of Morgoth on Arda, surrounded with Balrogs. Let's go smash ourselves against the walls."

Kellquenti · 02-01-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Are you okay, Kell?

Anyway, he did a lot more than just say rude words. Let's see... rebellion, murder, treason... The list goes on until he finally died.

I'm fine

just my Feanorian fire spirit got loose

As it sometimes does, (by the way , shall I sling the first one at Atalus?)

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attalus

Uselessly, stupidly. He had about as much notion of tactics as a year-old bull calf. "Hey, there's the big, impregnible fortress of Morgoth on Arda, surrounded with Balrogs. Let's go smash ourselves against the walls."

What an absolute idiot.

(not you, Attalus

)

Interesting, the obvious distinction between genious and true wisdom, wouldn't you all say? Here's the logic of the most brilliant of the Noldor.

Count Comfect and I have been discussing it over PM and don't really think that Fëanor's sons stood much of a chance against him and the Oath.

Since there's not much more to blame Fëanor on, anyone want to move into discussing his sons?

Pytt · 02-03-2005, 09:53 AM

Blaming his sons too? or speaking of them in a general way? Yes, why not? maybe you come up with more things to blame Feanor for

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 10:01 AM

Actually, it might seem strange, but I don't blame them that much at all. I don't think you can look at the Oath as just a normal sort of promise... geas goes much further than that...

Pytt · 02-03-2005, 10:20 AM

Yes, I agree. The Oath is much stronger. That truly was Feanors fault, not his sons.

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 10:29 AM

I'm quite against the argument that Fëanor's sons did not have to follow after their father and speak the Oath. After all, Fëanor managed to incite almost all of the Noldor to rebellion... and then to kinslaying.

How could his sons have abandoned him in that moment? How could they have withstood their father when few else of the Noldor could? And I think filial duty comes into it quite a bit here as well...

And what could they have done after?

*This* is why I hate Fëanor.

Pytt · 02-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Yes. Who were they, his sons if they had opposed him, when everyone else hailed him? He got to be a elf people liked and admired to get them to that.
So if they sons of Feanor "had" a choice, they really had not. I don't find a hiting comparsion now.

Kellquenti · 02-03-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

What an absolute idiot. :rolleyes (not you, Attalus

)

Interesting, the obvious distinction between genious and true wisdom, wouldn't you all say? Here's the logic of the most brilliant of the Noldor.

Count Comfect and I have been discussing it over PM and don't really think that Fëanor's sons stood much of a chance against him and the Oath.

Since there's not much more to blame Fëanor on, anyone want to move into discussing his sons?

Oooh careful!

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

Oooh careful!

I'm defending them, Kell.

Though in some cases, I don't know why...

Telcontar_Dunedain · 02-03-2005, 03:33 PM

Everythings Fëanor's sons did was Fëanor's fault!

Count Comfect · 02-03-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Everythings Fëanor's sons did was Fëanor's fault!

Yes, exactly. So, what shall we blame them for?

Attalus · 02-03-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

I'm fine

just my Feanorian fire spirit got loose

As it sometimes does, (by the way , shall I sling the first one at Attalus?)

S'okay, I am armoured in armour of the Elder days.

Ooh, lets start with Celegorm and Curufin, guilty of kidnapping and holding Luthien to get her daddy to marry Celegorm. What a name, BTW. I think JRRT disliked him, too.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-03-2005, 04:51 PM

Yeah, and trying to usurp Finrod's throne and turning all his people against him.

Minielin · 02-03-2005, 05:08 PM

Of Feanor's sons, Celegorm & Curufin are the only ones I really dislike... I have sympathy for all the others in one way or another, since everything they may have done was Feanor's fault. The kidnapping of Luthien etc., however, was not.

02-01-2005, 04:34 PM	#102
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	I'll guess doing good things is not cool and I don't think this will be the best place to say if he did, you would be slaughtered like a chicken in a foxfarm __________________ Don't Panic!

02-03-2005, 09:53 AM	#109
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	Blaming his sons too? or speaking of them in a general way? Yes, why not? maybe you come up with more things to blame Feanor for __________________ Don't Panic!

02-03-2005, 10:01 AM	#110
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	Actually, it might seem strange, but I don't blame them that much at all. I don't think you can look at the Oath as just a normal sort of promise... geas goes much further than that... __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

02-03-2005, 10:20 AM	#111
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	Yes, I agree. The Oath is much stronger. That truly was Feanors fault, not his sons. __________________ Don't Panic!

02-03-2005, 10:29 AM	#112
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	I'm quite against the argument that Fëanor's sons did not have to follow after their father and speak the Oath. After all, Fëanor managed to incite almost all of the Noldor to rebellion... and then to kinslaying. How could his sons have abandoned him in that moment? How could they have withstood their father when few else of the Noldor could? And I think filial duty comes into it quite a bit here as well... And what could they have done after? This is why I hate Fëanor. __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

02-03-2005, 10:55 AM	#113
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	Yes. Who were they, his sons if they had opposed him, when everyone else hailed him? He got to be a elf people liked and admired to get them to that. So if they sons of Feanor "had" a choice, they really had not. I don't find a hiting comparsion now. __________________ Don't Panic!

02-03-2005, 03:33 PM	#116
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Everythings Fëanor's sons did was Fëanor's fault! __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

02-03-2005, 04:51 PM	#119
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Yeah, and trying to usurp Finrod's throne and turning all his people against him. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-03-2005, 05:08 PM	#120
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	Of Feanor's sons, Celegorm & Curufin are the only ones I really dislike... I have sympathy for all the others in one way or another, since everything they may have done was Feanor's fault. The kidnapping of Luthien etc., however, was not. __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

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