01-10-2005, 10:41 AM | #101 |
Elf Lord
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How about, "the we-don't-like-it 'cuz-we-have-to-think" guy?
If you wish to discuss Islamic influence, you must face up to analysis. Sorry it's not all sweetness and light, folks, as you characterize, say, Christianity. And the reason it was in both threads was that it was published in Paris so it fit this thread while it concerned the tsunami and fit that thread. Rather than have you all flail about helplessly, I made it easy for you so we could discuss both aspects: Europe and the affected areas. By the by, I heard that France had donated a insignificant 150,000 USD. Does anyone know if that is in error? Sure seems like it must be. (I would not ascribe that to Islamic influence, BTW, but rather to the deficit that loss of trade with Saddam must have caused ).
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-10-2005, 06:07 PM | #102 | |||
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I do believe that you can't say all Muslims are the same. However, I think it's entirely valid to refer to Muslims, and their general beliefs and practices, especially since they themselves do. Quote:
We're talking belief systems here, with official scriptures and leaders. If a person in Indonesia calls himself a Muslim, that's referring to the Islamic scriptures and leadership system. If a person in Indonesia calls himself a Christian, that's referring to Christian scriptures and leadership structures. If a Christian in Indonesia identifies himself as a Christian, he may be killed by those calling themselves Muslims. I just don't buy this "nobody is anything" idea. I know that individuals may believe their scriptures in varying degrees, but no Christian is going to say, "I'm a Christian, and I believe the Bible is entirely wrong, and there is no God."
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-10-2005 at 06:10 PM. |
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01-10-2005, 06:51 PM | #103 | |||||||||
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But also, when you say, "implying that there are others they can be accused of" - what? are you saying there are NO evils that Muslims can be accused of? Why would you think this, when further down your post you accuse Christians (and rightly) of some evils? Are Christians the only ones that can be accused of evils? Quote:
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I know what you're saying with the "savages" comment, but we have to be careful. I think there are valid ways to say, "hey, I just think Muslim societies tend to have less regard for women and those of different beliefs" without saying, "Those Muslims are idiotic, infintile savages!" Quote:
BTW, our church supports missionaries in other countries. (and this has changed, btw - one of my favorite missionaries is in India, and works with disabled Indian kids - it's NOT just descend on a culture and throw out pamplets; it's move into a culture with love in your heart and look for ways to bless the people there.) We have some missionaries in Muslim countries. Let's compare some Christian/Muslim cultural reactions. In America, yes, there is some prejudice against Muslims, but it is NOT officially sanctioned, nor encouraged by leaders, and a Christian harming a Muslim will be prosecuted. In one Muslim country where we have some people living there, we can't even get pictures of them, because the chances are very good that they will be killed. Is it Muslim bashing for me to point this out? Or is it an impartial evaluation on my part as to what I consider to be better or worse? In general, it is my opinion that Christianity promotes loving one's neighbor of ANY belief more than Islam. I'm really not aware of Muslims leaving their country to go to America and to help disabled and impoverished American kids; are you? Now individual Muslims and Christians vary, but I'm evaluating official beliefs, as held by the majority of those that identify with those beliefs. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-10-2005 at 06:55 PM. |
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01-10-2005, 07:18 PM | #104 | |||
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If the latter, how exactly do you mean characterize? I imagine that this would be hard... Slightly OT... but what are the racial implications of a good Samaratain? (Aside from Sarmatia being an ancient country IIRC.) EDIT: Also, a more liberal/equal/whatever view of women doesn't imply a society is more civilized (I'm not saying you were saying that R*an), it just means it's a more liberal society.
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01-11-2005, 02:12 AM | #105 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-11-2005, 06:11 AM | #106 | |||||||||||||
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Sorry, just joking. I wouldn't accuse an entire religion of evils, though I might accuse religion itself, but that's another story... Quote:
I think you'll find a tremendous heterogeneity within Islam on the role and treatment of women. They certainly don't have a monopoly on oppressing women. However, I would regard many of the practices I have heard of as barbaric. Quote:
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I have massive amounts of admiration for the individuals who altruistically sacrifice themselves to this kind of work. But it's had precious little impact on poverty worldwide. There are still 30,000 people PER DAY dying because of preventable, poverty-related causes. We're rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic here. To quote a famous Brazilian priest whose name escapes me, "If I give food to the hungry they call me a saint; If I ask why people are hungry they call me a communist". One of the reasons why Christianity is so successful is because it offers succour to those who are oppressed and suffering. Christ's suffering elevates misery to a spiritual level. "You'll get your reward in the next life." One could argue that this encourages complacency and helps prevent people from rising up and insisting on a fairer distribution of wealth. I'm just pointing out that there are many different ways of viewing any act, even one that seems altruistic and worthy. Quote:
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I guess my point is that such evaluations, expressed in the way that article does, contribute to an atmosphere of prejudice towards Islam. My belief is that this particular article is calculatedly and deliberately so, particularly in the context of the tsunami. I find it hard to understand how anyone can fail to see this. It's rather undignified for one religion to say to another "we have this principle of X which you don't so we're better than you". That's why I characterised it as intellectual (or theological) onanism. It's also pride and vanity, which IIRC are two of the Seven. Last edited by The Gaffer : 01-11-2005 at 09:50 AM. |
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01-11-2005, 10:41 AM | #107 |
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The Gaffer,
Let's see if I have you correctly, any religion will do in a pinch and should be sacrosanct because it is a religion. Except Christianity because it is the root cause of all failure to live up to ideals in the world, ergo, all religions are created equal except Christianity. Right? I do however agree "One of the reasons why Christianity is so successful is because it offers succour to those who are oppressed and suffering. Christ's suffering elevates misery to a spiritual level. "You'll get your reward in the next life." One could argue that this encourages complacency and helps prevent people from rising up and insisting on a fairer distribution of wealth." You do realize that Marx's primary complaint was the latter in a society which was status-based and transitioning to contract-based. I wonder however if you realize that it was Christians who challenged the status quo on slavery, enfranchisement of women, child-labor, etc and beat down those evils? Are you aware that those problems persist in Islamic based cultures and others (and that Islamic slave traders continue to work today? It is not an attack on Islam to note the societal contexts in which it operates and its effects or lack of on those societies. However, while you reserve your attacks for Christianity, you seem remarkably uninformed about Islamic social matters. My question would be that if you contend for equality of religions, why not attack all equally and on the same grounds? And, secondly, if it's all wrong, get busy setting it right would seem the proper course of action, would it not? Finally, I must observe that one reason all threads on the Moot seem to lead to religion, is that Tolkien's work is at heart a religious act -"unconsciously in the making and consciously in the revision" as he said. This is a result of his Catholicism-Christianity. If you haven't read ON FAIRY STORIES, you might do so to see the light it sheds on this area. Tolkien was hardly writing an intentional, conscious manifesto of Christianity per se, but since a subcreator can work only in the given world, his subcreation of ME has much implicit and overtly Christian inluence. If you recall from the LETTERS, JRRT chose not to go into the matter of Britain and Arthurian legendaria BECAUSE it was overtly Christian and so identified with that material that it could not accomplish what he set out to do: to create the uber-mythos for England. What is remarkable in this process is the demonstration of the essential unity of the enlightenment of all men as to the nature of the Creator and their responsibilities to that One by the gathering of the prismatically refracted light back towards its Source. Hence, the underlying basis of morality and good behaviours, however manifested, are shown to have a true origin and basis. In this regard Tolkien called Christianity "True Myth". Though he avoids the inestricable entanglement of Arthurian materials with Christianity by creating a mythos prior to Christ, he is INCAPABLE of pretending that the light gathered back towards its unity does not reveal the true nature of reality. The point of this digression is that no one can avoid the underlying basis of Creation and morality in the assessment of religions. Tolkien's premise is that there is Good and it is knowable, though not perfectable, in human understanding, and that some approach it more adequately than others. This is explicit in Aragorn's comment that 'good has not changed". And, in fact, one of the major appeals of LOTR et alia is that it proclaims this reality in a relativistic world milieu which failed Tolkien's generation and every generation since. The broad multicultural appeal of Tolkien lies in this subcreatorial reality and its expression in a new mode: Middle Earth. None of which is to deny the artist his artistry, but rather to acknowledge that the beauty and power of ME arise from the Source of all Beauty and Power, Who has made Himself known in this case via Tolkien's apprehension and expression of it as he perceived it. But you ank I are likewise called to the aprehension and expression of the same. Judging the approximation of the various religious expressions of that Truth and ranking them and embracing or rejecting them on that basis is at the very root of the human endeavor and unavoidable. "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve" is not only a Jewish and Christian heritage. It is the heritage of mankind and as Tolkien demonstrates involves the whole person and the whole of the primary creation. It is the one unavoidable fact of human experience in all times and places. It is, in fact, eternal.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-11-2005, 06:47 PM | #108 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Gaff and Inky - great posts; am looking forward to re-reading and responding to them; no time now - son's basketball game to get to.
Will resume use of pronouns when have more time
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-12-2005, 10:59 AM | #109 |
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Here's another interesting take on Islamic influence in Europe, specifically GB
Religious activists deserve our respect By Janet Daley The Daily Telegraph (Filed: 12/01/2005) After all these years of fundamentalist apathy, religion has suddenly become a hot issue in British public life. We have the Muslims to thank for this, I suppose. They tend to see their faith as more than a social habit or a nominal adornment, and their ability to make politicians take notice of their sensitivities has made indigenous Christians (at least the more volatile of them) feel like mugs. The people who allegedly made death threats against BBC executives for showing Jerry Springer: The Opera, are so far out on the evangelical fringe that they scarcely speak for anyone.[The Metropolitan Police have no record of any threats being reported according to BBC Website] Indeed, they may scarcely exist except in the mind of some clever BBC publicity manager. But, hyperbole apart, there is a real question being raised here that liberal society needs to answer if it is to survive in the form we know. How much respect is owed to religious belief by a secular society? Or, to put it another way: is the belief in anything other than tolerance itself (which is to say, no-particular-belief) worthy of reverence? I use the word "reverence" advisedly. It may be true, as I tried to argue here a couple of weeks ago, that we have lost our sense of the sacred in any theological sense, but it is not true that we regard nothing as sacred at all. Our education system and our human rights legislation are both dedicated to the proposition that toleration of differences - religious, racial and sexual - is the cardinal social virtue. It is more highly valued than being law-abiding (lapses of which may be forgiven on the grounds of social disadvantage), or being unselfish (a dubious inclination in an age when "self-fulfilment" is the aim of life). To fail in almost any area of personal responsibility, as a spouse or a parent or a neighbour, may be forgiven with extenuating circumstances, but a sin against tolerance is without excuse. Don't get me wrong, I can see the point. As a member of an ethnic group that has been victimised by intolerance more often and more gravely than any other in history, I could hardly object to the fine intention, or the historical justification, of this principle. But what happens when tolerance itself is being challenged by groups whom we are instructed to see as the objects of religious toleration? What is the liberal democratic society to do about Muslims who burn books in a chilling evocation of the least tolerant society in modern history, let alone when they issue a fatwa against a novelist? What is an enlightened country, which has not closed theatres on theological grounds since Cromwell's time, to do when Sikhs use violence to shut down a play? What happens when the principle gets turned inside out, so that the very thing that you are being instructed to tolerate is intolerance? The liberal secular society does not have an answer to this because its mock-theological first commandment - to tolerate indiscriminately - becomes useless. Which is why we are, at the moment, flailing around: caving in to the Sikhs and the Muslims who are well-organised and have quite a lot of votes, while brushing off the Christians who are only beginning to get themselves together and have very few votes. That is presumably what is known as British pragmatism. When the Energy Minister, Mike O'Brien, hints heavily that Michael Howard, a Jew, would be unlikely to stand up for British Muslims, what is he saying? Nothing less than that Labour is offering guarantees that Muslims will have the choice of "sending your children to faith schools", and the right "of Muslim women to wear the hijab". And what if those schools forbid to girls the educational equality that our modern liberal society believes essential? Or if Muslim women, who wish to join in the female emancipation that other British women take for granted, feel that they are being coerced into wearing the hijab? Whose rights is Mr O'Brien protecting? And whose idea of tolerance is it, that he is promoting? Not that we are alone in this dilemma: France, a traditionally Catholic country where selling contraceptives was illegal within living memory, has banned schoolgirls from wearing the hijab. Everyone in post-religious Europe is confused and disoriented by a phenomenon that hardly anyone anticipated: the reintroduction into society of people who take religious belief seriously. Not only have Muslims and Sikhs themselves entered into public discourse with a robustness that has caught our liberal institutions on the hop, but, even more surprisingly, they have brought out of hiding an activist Christianity which had been invisible. To add to the mix, there may be a developing comradeship between these groups. In the demonstrations against the Jerry Springer opera at BBC Television Centre, Christian protesters were joined by Muslims who participated in the ceremonial burning of television licences. There was a fellow-feeling here, partly because Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, but also perhaps through a shared sense that sincere religious faith was being treated callously by an institution that everyone must pay to support. So, paradoxically, a form of illiberalism (the prohibition of a play) was actually conducive to a bonding between religious groups that most liberals would want to welcome. In modern Britain, even the sincerely devout are accustomed to making their peace with the secular state. Roman Catholics who oppose abortion recognise the rule of law and confine themselves to lobbying for a change in it, rather than shooting doctors at abortion clinics. But there is a new kind of challenge here to complacent non-belief, and to anti-religious puerility. Perhaps it is time to accept that the peaceful settlement cuts both ways: if the religious subjugate their beliefs to the will of the majority, then that majority (and those who speak for it) must show them, if not reverence, at least civility. NB
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-12-2005, 12:58 PM | #110 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Interesting article, Inky, altho I kept laughing at the term "indigenous Christians" - made me think of Christians peacefully grazing in a field for some reason ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-12-2005, 01:29 PM | #111 | ||||
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I don't see the Bible saying to be complacent at ALL on the subject of relief of the poor. One of the more interesting verses in the Bible is about what God thinks of Sodom and Gomorrah. I"m talking what the Bible claims that GOD thinks. Here it is : Quote:
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But I see your point, and will certainly correct it whenever it comes up, and now you have some ammo to correct it, too (i.e., if a Christian says, incorrectly, that we shouldn't help the poor).
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-12-2005 at 01:31 PM. |
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01-12-2005, 08:03 PM | #112 | |||||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And btw, political threads are also in the realm of worldview beliefs, because politics deal with what is good for the people, and people's views on what is good comes from their worldview beliefs. Quote:
Can you even pretend that "it's unseemly for one religion to accuse another of evils" is a good general rule, given practices like this? Now it's quite different to just wholesale condemn individual people. But IMO it's entirely valid to speak out against something that a religion or worldview promotes, if you think it's wrong. In fact, it's more than valid, I think it's the right thing to do. Quote:
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I think we need to do both. Quote:
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Second - I'm not considering converting to Islam, but someone I know might have questions about it, and I think it's good to be informed in many areas, don't you? Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-12-2005 at 08:08 PM. |
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01-13-2005, 08:42 AM | #113 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Sometimes wars are a necessary evil and I am perfectly aware of which one you are referring too. But youy make such general statements - it's ridiculous. Under CHRISTIAN principals -Hussein should have been dealt with long ago for killing his own people. Let me remind you that he murder millions AFTER 1991 - when Bush 41 wanted to take him out - but the world wouldn't let him. So the world sat back while millions were slaughtered. It's funny though how the world forgets history and likes to blame Bush '41 for not "finishing" it off. I would say under Christian principals - it was perfectly justified under the terms to go in their and save those people. Europe seemed not have a problem with us going into Bosnia - but then that was a European war and Europe was afraid and it was in THEIR interest. We should have let Europe handle it - too bad they couldn't though. Europe is a bunch of hypocrits when it comes to the war in Iraq versus the way they acted with Bosnia.
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01-13-2005, 11:16 AM | #114 |
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Si, Senor JD,
At the risk of infuriating our European counterparts, I MUST observe that the preservation of alleged dignity allowed the Kaiser, Hitler, Stalin, and Bosnia. The results of standing in one's dignity is all too obvious to we in the New World. But historically, the rescued berate the rescuers for the rescue as it assaults the ego, to mention two egregrious current examples France and Indonesia. The EU would have had its aegis 6 decades ago under Hitler save for GB and the US, and later, yes, Stalin (to give the Devil his due). But most likely the hegemony of the USSR would have annilhilated the third Reich for the establishment of the EU. The point of which is that while rabidly chewing on the hand that has provided salvation 3 times (counting Bosnia), the learning curve is asymptotic! It takes blinders of lead not to see it again, but fortunately there is sufficient supply in the derriers of most EU members to await their inevitable delayed recognition. The history of Turkey is particularly salient in regard to culture and Islam and Christianity and Islam and freedom and Islam and societal status and Islam, but they are so busy (if I may pardoned a Biblical quotation) straining at gnats and swallowing camels that they shall have depleted Islam of emigrants and given it Europe while blithely denigrating their saviours temporal and eternal! End of rant. Let the attacks begin!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-13-2005, 11:36 AM | #115 | |
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On last nights news they had on how we're in competition with them or some ****. They were going to set up a relief hospital in some location and when they got there - we were already there helping people - so they went off in a huff and set up a few miles away. I couldn't believe it.
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01-13-2005, 04:26 PM | #116 | |
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muslims share a basic belief system, but that is all... they comprise a huge variety of people, lifestyles, morals, etc... just like catholics remember the "branch davidians" in waco, texas? guess what, they were christian... and they were also american... yet i wouldn't use their behavior to charaterize all christians or all americans regardless of how we categorize people in this world, politically, regionally or religiously... they are individuals, not the category they fall into
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01-13-2005, 05:29 PM | #117 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-13-2005 at 05:36 PM. |
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01-13-2005, 05:44 PM | #118 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
this is not some minor wordplay on my part... i think an essential component to any kind of cross-cultural issue is realizing that members of cultures are individuals... and often extremely different than one another as different as you are from someone in waco or a jehovah's witness in the midwest or an irish catholic in boston
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-13-2005, 06:27 PM | #119 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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I don't think I usually use generalizations (I like to say "many" or "most" or "some", NOT "all"), but I'll be extra diligent in that area, because I don't believe that "all" Muslims act the same way.
However, I believe that the number of Muslims that would hunt down Rushdie is MUCH higher than the number of wacos in Waco After all, 70 (or is it 72) eternal virgins in Paradise? (one wonders what those poor virgins did to get themselves into that hell! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-13-2005, 06:37 PM | #120 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Yeah what a great argument against staying a virgin eh? "If you dont have sex with me youll have to have sex with millions of icky muslim suicide bombers!"
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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