The Official US President Election Thread

[jerseydevil]

By the way - this is the definition of amused - which made it seem like you liked his antics...

a·muse

1. To occupy in an agreeable, pleasing, or entertaining fashion.
2. To cause to laugh or smile by giving pleasure: I was not amused by his jokes.

amused

2. To entertain or occupy in a pleasant manner; to stir with pleasing or mirthful emotions; to divert.

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You are absolutely right here. LM. All I was trying to do was show the poster in question how wrong it is to speak for everyone, or to group together so many people and assume they believe the same as you do. It was like they were speaking for the entire world.

Thank you SGH, I understand where you were coming from - my biggest pet hate with politicians is when they make stupid statements like:

"The British people believe that....."; or
"Americans feel strongly that....."; or
"The whole world outside American is thinking......"

It's clearly nonsense, but more than that, its abject arrogance to think that just because one holds a particular view, the rest of 'sensible' humanity must agree. Your point is well made.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by LutraMage
Thank you SGH, I understand where you were coming from - my biggest pet hate with politicians is when they make stupid statements like:

"The British people believe that....."; or
"Americans feel strongly that....."; or
"The whole world outside American is thinking......"

It's clearly nonsense, but more than that, its abject arrogance to think that just because one holds a particular view, the rest of 'sensible' humanity must agree. Your point is well made.

I think we would all agree with that.....

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
I think we would all agree with that.....

Well actually they're not far out statements when the majority of a particular people believe that we are more of a danger to world peace than North Korea.

They're going by scientific polls to get a feel of what people think. However - I have never heard anyone use the phrase "The whole world..."

Of course not all the British people believe something - but if the majority do - then that phrase is used. What iridates me - is that people act like it is only the US that says this stuff. Do you know how many countries have no understanding of the US - but complain when we don't have a full understanding of them? It's a too way street and I am tired of America always being singled out.

Much of Europe didn't like Bush's attitude toward them before the Iraq war, but gave Chriac a free pass when he told the Easrtern European countries who supported us to "shut up".

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
They're going by scientific polls to get a feel of what people think.......Of course not all the British people believe something - but if the majority do - then that phrase is used.

The problem, JD, is that most politicians (and even more non-politicians, including a number on the Moot) use the phrases without any 'scientific' evidence and without having any real notion whether or not they are really expressing a majority view. Instead, the phrases are used to try to imply their view does have majority support - its putting the cart before the horse.

What iridates me - is that people act like it is only the US that says this stuff. Do you know how many countries have no understanding of the US - but complain when we don't have a full understanding of them? It's a too way street and I am tired of America always being singled out.

Much of Europe didn't like Bush's attitude toward them before the Iraq war, but gave Chriac a free pass when he told the Easrtern European countries who supported us to "shut up".

Yes, but it was only a section of Europe, in fact many European governments supported the States on Iraq, (Britain, Spain, Poland, Italy, Hungary and many more).

But this thread is supposed to be about your Presidential elections - not about how badly misunderstood the US is. Here's your chance to educate us ignorant non-Americans - so get on with it - educate us, don't bitch about us.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by LutraMage
But this thread is supposed to be about your Presidential elections - not about how badly misunderstood the US is. Here's your chance to educate us ignorant non-Americans - so get on with it - educate us, don't bitch about us.

I'm not bitching at you - I'm just stating facts. (I see the too by the way, just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't bitching at you) Also, I know that many countries in Europe supported the US - but many wanted to make it seem like it was just Britain and the US alone. Poland and Hungary were two of the countries Chirac told to shut up.

As for the presidential elections - I thought I have been posting information on how our system works.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I never claimed you were inspired. Do you always put words in people's mouth? It just didn't seem by you using the word "amuse" that you were turned off by his antics. You weren't actually indicating that he made you laugh in a bad way. I would have used the word "ridiculous" to describe his antics on stage - not "amused" if I was going to express what you just described as your feelings.

There are many was one can take the word "amused".

Im often "amused" by your antics but it doesnt mean I agree with you on things. Thats kind of why i called it a diatribe because it struck me as way over the top and bizare. And yes it made me AMUSED. it actually made me laugh out loud when i heard it. who roars in a political speech? what is this a high school football game rally?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Im often "amused" by your antics but it doesnt mean I agree with you on things.

And the feeling is mutual - going by your definition.

Thats kind of why i called it a diatribe because it struck me as way over the top and bizare. And yes it made me AMUSED. it actually made me laugh out loud when i heard it. who roars in a political speech? what is this a high school football game rally?

It was over the top. He acted like an idiot and I'm sure right now he wishes he didn't do that. The way he acted - it almost seemed like he had been drinking.

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I'm not bitching at you - I'm just stating facts. (I see the too by the way, just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't bitching at you)

Okay, I understand you weren't intending to bitch, just to inform.

As for the presidential elections - I thought I have been posting information on how our system works.

Believe it or not, I think that much of what you write is both illuminating and interesting - if I was to be just a little tiny bit critical I would just say that you sometimes appear to take things slightly too seriously. Which is not to say that some of the things we discuss on the Moot shouldn't be taken very seriously, but you have some penetrating and challenging thoughts which can occasionally be lost amongst the angst and polemic. And I mean no offence, I just think you score more when you don't get exasperated at your fellow Mooters!

[brownjenkins]

i'm voting for anyone not named bush... i think he is the worst president we've had since hoover

i'd also love to see McCain in there again, my favorite prospect in recent years... on the democratic side i'll wait to see how the primaries hash out first

on the whole international discussion going on here... i think we as americans would all be better served by listening to both the good and bad things the rest of the world has to say about us... it doesn't take that much character to only deal with those who agree with you, it takes a lot more to reconcile with those who do not

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i'm voting for anyone not named bush... i think he is the worst president we've had since hoover

Well I disagree - in terms of foreign affairs - I think he has done a great job. We have gone on long enough appeasing rogue nation after rogue nation - until what we got was 9/11 by Osama. We should NOT have pulled out of Somalia, we should have continued to follow Osama Bin Ladin. Clinton was one of the worst presidents - he ran his presidency by opinion polls. If he had NOT listened to world opinion and we had gone after Bin Ladin after multiple embassy bombings and the cole being bombed (whihc if any country had done that would have been an act of war) we would not have had 9/11 occur. But instead - the world and many Americans wanted us to just stick our head in the ground and ignore it. Things needed to chaneg and we finally have a president who is making those changes.

on the whole international discussion going on here... i think we as americans would all be better served by listening to both the good and bad things the rest of the world has to say about us... it doesn't take that much character to only deal with those who agree with you, it takes a lot more to reconcile with those who do not

Listening is one thing - we can listen - but we don't always have to follow or that they are right. We have to decide what is right for us - and that does not always coincide with them. Oh - France will be VERY much on our side again if they are ever attacked and that's probably just a matter of time. People don't understand because they lived 9/11 through their TVs - they didn't live 45 minutes from ground zero.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i'm voting for anyone not named bush... i think he is the worst president we've had since hoover

funny. i didnt think you were that old.

Although it amazes me how many people are just all about getting in ANYONE but Bush. At all costs. Usually theres a decent amount of rancor and passion about the various candidates in a primary. this year it seems like a good number of democrats dont really care who wins they just want someone who can get bush out. thats gotta say something I figure...

i'd also love to see McCain in there again, my favorite prospect in recent years...

I agree. I like his stance against corruption and for alternative energy resources. Two things you dont usually see republicans really get into.

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Clinton was one of the worst presidents - he ran his presidency by opinion polls.

Ah, so that's where Blair got the idea from - interesting.

[The Gaffer]

In case there are any people who haven't made up their mind yet, I came across this web site which asks you a bunch of questions then gives you a score matched against the candidates. I got Kucinich (who he?) at the top, 100% match; next Kerry 95%; Bush @ 7%

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
In case there are any people who haven't made up their mind yet, I came across this web site which asks you a bunch of questions then gives you a score matched against the candidates. I got Kucinich (who he?) at the top, 100% match; next Kerry 95%; Bush @ 7%

Kucinich is a socialist democrat who is a vegan. He's the farthest left of all the candidates and also last in the primaries along with Sharpton.

Right now it's...

Kerry
Dean
Clark/Edwards
Lieberman

[Beor]

I dont really know whats going on in this thread, but is there anyone out there who thinks Bush should get re-elected? I for one do, I think that he is doing a pretty good job, at least from my point of view.

[jerseydevil]

I took it - didn't restrict my answer to any particular party. I got the following...

1 Bush.............Score: 100%
2 Lieberman....Score: 96%
3 Edwards.......Score: 92%
4 Kerry.............Score: 88%
5 Clark.............Score: 81%
6 Dean.............Score: 73%
7 Sharpton.......Score: 64%
8 Kucinich.........Score: 60%

I was surpised that Edwards scored so high with me. I knew Lieberman would - because I would vote for him and through the debates I generally agree with him. The only real problem with Lieberman in my eyes is that foreign affairs would be a mess because he's Jewish and the Middle East would not want to deal with him. I think dean would have a similar problem dealing with the Middle East because his wife is Jewish. Nothing wrong with a Jewish President or First Lady - just think it's a bad time to try adding that into the mix of the Middle East affairs.

Clark I figured would have come out a bit higher. Not even sure how they were able to get his information in there to make a comparison on him. He goes back and forth on everything.

No surprise whatsoever on Kucinich or Sharpton - can't stand either one. The Democrats don't seem to be able to stand them either - let alone the rest of the country - since they are dead last in the primaries.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Beor
I dont really know whats going on in this thread, but is there anyone out there who thinks Bush should get re-elected? I for one do, I think that he is doing a pretty good job, at least from my point of view.

I plan on voting for Bush and I know others who do - including my brother who is in the Navy. I asked him if that was the general feeling in the armed forces. He said he didn't know about the other branches - but it is for the Navy.

Do most people support Bush in your branch Beor?

[Beor]

As far as the branch is concerened, I dont really know, everyone seems to in my unit, except a few naysayers who pretty much complain about everything anyway. I would venture to guess that the majority of the Army probably supports Bush, which is good, because I would hate to see what would happen to the country if one of these democratic candidates got control of it.

[Insidious Rex]

Kerry 100%
Kucinich 98%
Dean 93%
Sharpton 93%
Clark 92%
Edwards 88%
Lieberman 80%
Bush 8%

hmmm...

Well I wonder what algorithms they use to determine this stuff. Seems kind of sketchy if they group Kerry and Kucinich within 2% of each other and yet 90% different from Bush. But anyway Im not a democrat so it doesn’t really matter. My focus is hopefully having an option that can actually get elected in a contest with Bush. Right now Kerry is doing well but Iowa and New Hampshire, although influential, don’t really have a lot of delegates so they aren’t massively vital. We’ll know more when super Tuesday comes around. Edwards should get a kick in the south and you should see more even numbers when they get to places like Missouri and Arizona.

Its quite obvious the focus is on getting a candidate who can actually beat bush and not simply getting the most ideal candidate. This is why I think Dean has slipped recently because he was trendy with the younger more vocal more liberal crowd there for a while but now that its getting serious the more traditional democrats are really focused on a personality that seems the most electable. So far they seem to feel that Kerry is that man which makes sense I guess. Hes not a left wing wacko. He has military experience. He has political experience. Hes even tempered and appealing. So the democrats are going about this with real care this year. Ive never seen anything like this. Its all about not who SHOULD be president but who SHOULDN’T. and the one common theme you hear is ANYBODY but Bush. The average democrat considers him such a detriment to so many things they hold as important that its caused a consciousness shift as far as picking a candidate goes.